AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvn737s]

Drink the wine of bitterness and wallow in your intoxication, then double down.

Sounds like the motto of USAPA to me.

Reap what you've sown.

 

[luvn737s]

Another #$%$#% genius post.

Did you think you could hijack our careers without consequence? Really?

 

[Phoenix]

Also, I don't want to fight the APA...that would be stupid cause I will lose. But if we go onto their court and say hey, we will shoot some hoops with you, and they say get the f off our playground...well then there just might be an axxwooping, and you and me would likely be on the recieving end.

Vote no if the COC thing is a deal breaker for you. Pretty simple really.

Since when did you develop the notion that a "Yes" vote for DUI concessions will form an alliance with the company to oppose the APA?

The company is giving you an opportunity to agree to concessions because... news flash, they need you to agree to concessions in order for them to get the concessions from you.... we are not in bankruptcy and there is no judge standing by to abrogate your contract.

 

[Phoenix]

Sounds like the motto of USAPA to me.

Reap what you've sown.

Keep drinking. You have a long way to go until you hit the dregs.

 

[cleardirect]

No. I assure you DUI is much more obsessed with a merger than I am.

DUI is desperate to be the one who formed the biggest airline in world history. Sure he can afford to walk away, but if he walks away from this merger, he will be forgotten faster than the coach who lost the 30th World Series (who the F was that?). But if he forms the largest airline in World History, he will be a legend.

If you can't simply ask to see the second offer, then you may indeed be more desperate than DUI, even though you have far less at stake.

What about if we wait to see the first offer before you start talking about the second offer.

 

[Phoenix]

What about if we wait to see the first offer before you start talking about the second offer.

You have seen it. Chip reported already. I think we should just accept Chip's summary of it and vote yes now. Hummel didn't think we needed to see it last week when he said it was finished, and he didn't distro it today after they talked about it. In fact why not just agree now to the concessions Chip reported and we can let DUI get on with the merger and discuss what we can get back later. The TRAIN IS LEAVING.

 

[EastCheats]

You have seen it. Chip reported already. I think we should just accept Chip's summary of it and vote yes now. Hummel didn't think we needed to see it last week when he said it was finished, and he didn't distro it today after they talked about it. In fact why not just agree now to the concessions Chip reported and we can let DUI get on with the merger and discuss what we can get back later. The TRAIN IS LEAVING.

Fenix, your train left long ago. Put your thumb out and take a hike.

Give it a rest and go to bed kiddo.

 

[cleardirect]

You have seen it. Chip reported already. I think we should just accept Chip's summary of it and vote yes now. Hummel didn't think we needed to see it last week when he said it was finished, and he didn't distro it today after they talked about it. In fact why not just agree now to the concessions Chip reported and we can let DUI get on with the merger and discuss what we can get back later. The TRAIN IS LEAVING.

Stop panicking chicken little. It has not even been voted out of the BPR yet. We have not seen the actual language yet. We have not had a chance to ask questions yet. The voting is not open yet.

Nothing needs to be done immediately.

So let's take a look at this thing and then and only then you get exactly what you wanted. You get one man one vote and guess what? MAJORITY IS GOING TO RULE.

It could be voted down. If it is voted down I hope it goes down huge. If it passes I hope just barely passes so Parker is not under some false impression that we are really happy with the deal.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Stop panicking chicken little. It has not even been voted out of the BPR yet. We have not seen the actual language yet. We have not had a chance to ask questions yet. The voting is not open yet.

Nothing needs to be done immediately.

Exactly. The chicken littles are so busy fear mongering that they haven't even asked the important questions...

Jim

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Giving up sick bank is a big hit. For the older guys its their 'heart attack insurance'. It also penalizes those who have not burned it.

Bigger yet is waiving CoC. If they are now going to structure this as AA acquiring LCC then the CoC provisions dwarf anything the MOU offers. OTOH, if we refuse to give up CoC and the company decides it will be LCC acquiring AA, the CoC is worthless because it won't be triggered. Would sure like to know the cost difference between the two merger scenarios.

There is hope for you yet! Not holding my breath!

 

[Freighterguynow]

We need to take this deal now with no
delay?

Let my daddy vote redux

 

[A320 Driver]

Giving up sick bank is a big hit. For the older guys its their 'heart attack insurance'. It also penalizes those who have not burned it.

Bigger yet is waiving CoC. If they are now going to structure this as AA acquiring LCC then the CoC provisions dwarf anything the MOU offers. OTOH, if we refuse to give up CoC and the company decides it will be LCC acquiring AA, the CoC is worthless because it won't be triggered. Would sure like to know the cost difference between the two merger scenarios.

You aren't giving up what sick bank you have above 1000 hours. You just can't accrue sick time above the 1000 cap. Use or lose the 60/year or the company will buy it back from you.

The CoC is a poison pill. It was not designed to be used. To get it, we will have to fight for it and by the time we could win an arbitration (LOL), the JCBA will take over and trump it.

It is what you make out of it... some good, some bad.

Driver...

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

The CoC is a poison pill. It was not designed to be used. To get it, we will have to fight for it and by the time we could win an arbitration (LOL), the JCBA will take over and trump it.

It is what you make out of it... some good, some bad.

Driver...

Well your last quote says what this document is all about, "the JCBA will take over and trump it." Just like this MOU? Just like our current JCBA, The COC was designed for this particular scenerio, just like our scope provision, your begging to give it away for 7grand after taxes is pathetic!

 

[Piedmont1984]

You aren't giving up what sick bank you have above 1000 hours. You just can't accrue sick time above the 1000 cap. Use or lose the 60/year or the company will buy it back from you.

The CoC is a poison pill. It was not designed to be used. To get it, we will have to fight for it and by the time we could win an arbitration (LOL), the JCBA will take over and trump it.

It is what you make out of it... some good, some bad.

Driver...

I have just under 1000 hours sick bank. Most who have not burned it are in the same situation. That is roughly 1.5 years worth of salary if you throw in vacation and annual sick leave. What is the company offering us in return? There's not even an early out option which lets us cash in that sick bank.

I need to think about the CoC. If it is a poison pill which was never meant to be actually implemented, the company is obviously eager to get rid of it, which means it represents leverage for the pilot group. What is the company offering in return?

We are not the one's in bankruptcy this time. We should be getting everything the AA pilots are getting without giving up a single provision in our own contract - unless the company pays for it.

The pay rates that go into effect on day 1 should be a given. What are we getting in return for the additional concessions - on top of LOA93 - that the company is asking for?

The MOU should be an enticement, not another game of peanut butter jars.

Bottom line is who really needs the MOU, the pilots or the company? If it is rejected and the merger proceeds with us nowhere at the table, but in the waiting room, are we better or worse. Last time we rejected the advice of attorneys, accountants and consultants - we ended up with LOA93.

On the fence

 

[Graceson]

The deadline is a negotiating strategy. Vote NO and there will be two more deadlines after this one, each manufactured an each more critical than the last. LCC has shown their hand. They want scope. They want COC. There is a price they are willing to pay and this is not it. This is there feeling out offer. WouldHAVE YOU sell your house using a yes in answer to this styled type of offer? If you were the buyer of COC, wouldn't you low ball the first offer. This is not a vote on a real AGREEEMENT. THIS IS A UNITY VOTE TO GIVE CREDIBILITY AND STRENGTH TO THE NAC. I VOTE ... NO