AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Piedmont1984]

The deadline is a negotiating strategy. Vote NO and there will be two more deadlines after this one, each manufactured an each more critical than the last. LCC has shown their hand. They want scope. They want COC. There is a price they are willing to pay and this is not it. This is there feeling out offer. WouldHAVE YOU sell your house using a yes in answer to this styled type of offer? If you were the buyer of COC, wouldn't you low ball the first offer. This is not a vote on a real AGREEEMENT. THIS IS A UNITY VOTE TO GIVE CREDIBILITY AND STRENGTH TO THE NAC. I VOTE ... NO

Shouldn't our attorneys be saying the exact same thing?

 

[Phoenix]

We need to take this deal now with no
delay?

Let my daddy vote redux

Yes, the Pollyanna brigade is singing Zippity Do Da right toward another pig in a poke. AA is in bankruptcy and they get to keep their pensions while we are being offered the opportunity to give up scope, LPPs, CoC, and min fleet, to pay for their pension.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Not to beat a dead horse but the guys who are within 2 years or less of retirement, who have sick bank saved up, who won't be able to burn it or cash it in, and for whom the higher pay rates won't make up the difference - why would they vote yes?

 

[Phoenix]

Shouldn't our attorneys be saying the exact same thing?

What are the attorneys doing? We should already have an exact copy of the MOU with key highlights of each and every pro and con. The attorneys have hordes of staffers that are billing us and we don't have any disclosure from them yet?? If our attorneys can't come up with a logical, rational argument with evidence and exhibits about why we need to vote yes they aren't being transparent.

In the past some of our advisors received a $1Million dollar consummation bonus when we voted in the last concessionary agreement. What are the USAPA lawyers promised under the "Company pays all union merger costs" provision? Why are they in a rush to tell us to vote yes, but there is no timely disclosure of the details for us to evaluate the motivations for a yes vote, other than hurry, hurry, hurry the train is leaving?

 

[Piedmont1984]

Does anyone know what triggered this MOU. In other words, which party requested an MOU, USAPA or LCC?

I can't find the answer by reading the BPR updates or USAPA newsletters.

It makes a big difference if we approached the company for an MOU rather than the other way around.

 

[cleardirect]

What are the attorneys doing? We should already have an exact copy of the MOU with key highlights of each and every pro and con. The attorneys have hordes of staffers that are billing us and we don't have any disclosure from them yet?? If our attorneys can't come up with a logical, rational argument with evidence and exhibits about why we need to vote yes they aren't being transparent.

In the past some of our advisors received a $1Million dollar consummation bonus when we voted in the last concessionary agreement. What are the USAPA lawyers promised under the "Company pays all union merger costs" provision? Why are they in a rush to tell us to vote yes, but there is no timely disclosure of the details for us to evaluate the motivations for a yes vote, other than hurry, hurry, hurry the train is leaving?

More panic from the sky is falling crowd.

First you are screaming vote no before the thing is even done. Then you were creaming vote no without looking at it. Now you are screaming to see the document before it is even voted out of the BPR. Are you really this clueless on how the process works?

Relax it is going to take several weeks for this entire process to play out. You will have plenty of time to cry and intimidate people to vote the way you want.

You seem to be the only one in a hurry, hurry, hurry. The train is not going anywhere right now. I would say we have at least a month before voting closes.

First it has to pass the BPR. It has to be printed and sent to our house. Road shows have to be scheduled. Voting will be open for a couple weeks.

 

[EastCheats]

More panic from the sky is falling crowd.

First you are screaming vote no before the thing is even done. Then you were creaming vote no without looking at it. Now you are screaming to see the document before it is even voted out of the BPR. Are you really this clueless on how the process works?

Relax it is going to take several weeks for this entire process to play out. You will have plenty of time to cry and intimidate people to vote the way you want.

You seem to be the only one in a hurry, hurry, hurry. The train is not going anywhere right now. I would say we have at least a month before voting closes.

First it has to pass the BPR. It has to be printed and sent to our house. Road shows have to be scheduled. Voting will be open for a couple weeks.

That's what's wrong with the Fenix and Usapian mindset. They are always in the red and everything is an immediate action. They need to slow down and evaluate the situation, otherwise they run the risk of shutting down the good engine.

 

[Phoenix]

The deadline is a negotiating strategy. Vote NO and there will be two more deadlines after this one, each manufactured an each more critical than the last. LCC has shown their hand. They want scope. They want COC. There is a price they are willing to pay and this is not it. This is there feeling out offer. WouldHAVE YOU sell your house using a yes in answer to this styled type of offer? If you were the buyer of COC, wouldn't you low ball the first offer. This is not a vote on a real AGREEEMENT. THIS IS A UNITY VOTE TO GIVE CREDIBILITY AND STRENGTH TO THE NAC. I VOTE ... NO

No FDML on board, no fuel slip, and no release in hand, but the chief pilot is telling the crew to push back and get going. Don't sweat the details. More to come on ACARS. We got your back.. always will! The gate agent is smiling like a cat in a hen house because the crew is in a panic to do everything they can to get the on time departure, and her husband is an AA pilot who is keeping his pension.. if the plane takes off as scheduled. Zippity Due Da, Zippity Ay. Mr. Blue bird on my shoulder...

 

[Pi brat]

Did you think you could hijack our careers without consequence? Really?

I didn't hijack your career. You sound like the guy with the backpack bomb. Doesn't matter that he will be blown to bits as long as it gets his infidel enemy.

 

[cleardirect]

No FDML on board, no fuel slip, and no release in hand, but the chief pilot is telling the crew to push back and get going. Don't sweat the details. More to come on ACARS. We got your back.. always will! The gate agent is smiling like a cat in a hen house because the crew is in a panic to do everything they can to get the on time departure, and her husband is an AA pilot who is keeping his pension.

So panicky, what is the departure time? It is not today or next week is it? There is no rush this should make you happy.

We have time to collect all the information you want. We will also have time for you to try and intimidate all those captains you fly with and convince them to vote the way you want.

 

[luvthe9]

Really?

My math shows that even if we simply had parity with the West pilots since 2005 (and we would have done better than that if we concluded a CBA in 2007), I have lost something around $115,000 in pay not to mention vacation and retirement enhancements.

And my money is still on Doug Parker. Without blinking an eyelash, he has USAPA right where he wants them and didn't have to do anything but watch them self-destruct. Those tough guys Cleary and Mowrey sure overwhelmed the boys in Tempe didn't they.

Make sure you kiss Cleary's ring the next time you see him.

May I remind you that we merged once with a west coast carrier and it was DOH. The bottom line, we bought PSA and sold everything and all the East pilots have to show for it is former PSA A330 pilots and flight attendants flying east routes, everything else was garbage and tossed.

Exactly what did we gain now from purchasing this former crap company. We are not allowing history from repeating itself with awa.

 

[luvthe9]

Shouldn't our attorneys be saying the exact same thing?

Come on now who pays the attorneys bills, Hummel. DiOrio was removed by Hummel AGAINST the advice of both attorneys. I'm sure everyone can see why now.

 

[luvthe9]

Thanks JED T., we are not in BK, just as the AMR pilots manned up and voted down their T/A lets pony up keep our COC and scope, my interpretation and yours of the meeting were very different, "GARY RAN A GREAT MEETING" , well good he gets paid well for it! Do you think were that naive! JED pleez! Compass Corruption!

You are so right MM, Thomas is is just laying a smoke screen it was quite the opposite and from what were stating to here this pilot group is becoming very upset with these compass correction nuts. I luved the Capt. who stood up and and gave it to the attorneys and board. I guess Hummel will have to take a year or so off like Pollock did then come back and take Bular's or Hogg's job as his reward for selling the pilots out.

 

[Pi brat]

What are the attorneys doing? We should already have an exact copy of the MOU with key highlights of each and every pro and con. The attorneys have hordes of staffers that are billing us and we don't have any disclosure from them yet?? If our attorneys can't come up with a logical, rational argument with evidence and exhibits about why we need to vote yes they aren't being transparent.

In the past some of our advisors received a $1Million dollar consummation bonus when we voted in the last concessionary agreement. What are the USAPA lawyers promised under the "Company pays all union merger costs" provision? Why are they in a rush to tell us to vote yes, but there is no timely disclosure of the details for us to evaluate the motivations for a yes vote, other than hurry, hurry, hurry the train is leaving?

PHX,

From what I understand the MOU wasn't completed until late Monday night. The meeting was yesterday, so not really a lot of time to get it out.

I agree with you on a lot of points. We are not the ones in Ch 11, we are making money etc. BUT, for many different reasons our company went completely around our union and negotiated what would be our contract without us. I talked to 2 different NAC members Saturday and they said one of the biggest reasons for doing this was to get a seat at the table. Is it worth what we give up? I don't know yet, I haven't read the document or had time to ask questions like "what happens without it?"

For the reasons you give I won't have a problem voting no if I think it's a bad deal. I wouldn't even have a problem with the BPR sending it back as long as it wasn't along the same political lines with a roll call vote.

Back in 2000 we were making money, but the world was changing. A bunch of people said the concession stand was closed. It wasn't, and by standing there with our arms crossed doing nothing we got burned.

 

[Phoenix]

So panicky, what is the departure time? It is not today or next week is it? There is no rush this should make you happy.

We have time to collect all the information you want. We will also have time for you to try and intimidate all those captains you fly with and convince them to vote the way you want.

Take some advice from your dad when you were a kid and ran up to him to ask for his money out of his wallet to fund a great opportunity for you. "If you need an answer now, the answer is, no. But I'm willing to hear you out if you think you can convince me to say, yes. Go ahead."

We have advocates of the MOU telling us the company is giving us an opportunity to pay for the AA pension with our Scope, CoC, LPPs, and min fleet. And our attorneys are telling us to jump on it and say yes. I'm all ears. The answer is no if you need an answer now. Go ahead, tell me why we should vote to give up our CoC, Scope, LPPs, and min fleet. The floor is yours. You have weeks and weeks to persuade me but considering the cost of the concessions the company is trying to add to the billions we already gave, you should get working on the details, times a wasting and you got a steep hill to summit. The parking brake is set, but go ahead, start talking.