AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Piedmont1984]

Take some advice from your dad when you were a kid and ran up to him to ask for his money out of his wallet to fund a great opportunity for you. "If you need an answer now, the answer is, no. But I'm willing to hear you out if you think you can convince me to say, yes. Go ahead."

We have advocates of the MOU telling us the company is giving us an opportunity to pay for the AA pension with our Scope, CoC, LPPs, and min fleet. And our attorneys are telling us to jump on it and say yes. I'm all ears. The answer is no if you need an answer now. Go ahead, tell me why we should vote to give up our CoC, Scope, LPPs, and min fleet. The floor is yours. You have weeks and weeks to persuade me but considering the cost of the concessions the company is trying to add to the billions we already gave, you should get working on the details, times a wasting and you got a steep hill to summit. The parking brake is set, but go ahead, start talking.

Good post.

 

[Graceson]

Shouldn't our attorneys be saying the exact same thing?

Attorneys say we shold have AN agreement. They infer that a unified NO vote would be powerful. We wil have an agreement. The attorneys will Support a revitalized effort with strong pilot consensus.

Historically, check the deadlines where the pilots have capitulated, and the ones where other labor groups did not. It's their MO.

If it's a business decision, i'll respect your vote. But if it's fear or emotion...those judgments are usually flawed.

 

[Phoenix]

PHX,

From what I understand the MOU wasn't completed until late Monday night. The meeting was yesterday, so not really a lot of time to get it out.

I agree with you on a lot of points. We are not the ones in Ch 11, we are making money etc. BUT, for many different reasons our company went completely around our union and negotiated what would be our contract without us. I talked to 2 different NAC members Saturday and they said one of the biggest reasons for doing this was to get a seat at the table. Is it worth what we give up? I don't know yet, I haven't read the document or had time to ask questions like "what happens without it?"

For the reasons you give I won't have a problem voting no if I think it's a bad deal. I wouldn't even have a problem with the BPR sending it back as long as it wasn't along the same political lines with a roll call vote.

Back in 2000 we were making money, but the world was changing. A bunch of people said the concession stand was closed. It wasn't, and by standing there with our arms crossed doing nothing we got burned.

AA is in bankruptcy and their board voted no. The pilots voted no to Horton and risked losing their pension.

But miraculously DUI was able to win them over with a sweet deal in a matter of weeks. Now he is coming to us because he needs our concessions to let him merge the biggest airline in world history and he is asking us to give him concessions after we have given him billions of dollars already. The answer is no unless you persuade me why its a good deal.



Standing by for the strategy of, "It will only get worse, really worse, if we don't just give in now..." Fool me twice, three times, four times, five times... keep fooling me. I'll always be your fool if you please let me.

 

[luvthe9]

PHX,

. I talked to 2 different NAC members Saturday and they said one of the biggest reasons for doing this was to get a seat at the table. Is it worth what we give up? I don't know yet, I haven't read the document or had time to ask questions like "what happens without it?"

we got burned.

A seat at the table is worthless, geez I hope that's not the biggest reason.

 

[Pi brat]

AA is in bankruptcy and their board voted no. The pilots voted no to Horton and risked losing their pension.

But miraculously DUI was able to win them over with a sweet deal in a matter of weeks. Now he is coming to us because he needs our concessions to let him merge the biggest airline in world history and he is asking us to give him concessions after we have given him billions of dollars already. The answer is no unless you persuade me why its a good deal.



Standing by for the strategy of, "It will only get worse, really worse, if we don't just give in now..." Fool me twice, three times, four times, five times... keep fooling me. I'll always be your fool if you please let me.

It's not my place to convince you of anything. As I don't know how I will vote, that would be hard to do anyway. I just don't get the arguing for a NO when you haven't seen the whole thing.

 

[Pi brat]

A seat at the table is worthless, geezIi hope that's not the biggest reason.

Ok 9, if you think a seat is worthless then lay out your vision for us without one. If we buy AA in order to get around the CofC, what will we be paid at the time of the merger? Will we stay on LOA 93 until we have single carrier status and then the APA just dictates to us what we get? I don't know, do you? One of my questions.

 

[luvthe9]

. They infer that a unified NO vote would be powerful. .

And it would be HUGE, just two little letters for a better deal, all so simple. This pilot group is like a starving person, just give me one little crumb and I'll be happy.

 

[luvthe9]

Ok 9, if you think a seat is worthless then lay out your vision for us without one. If we buy AA in order to get around the CofC, what will we be paid at the time of the merger? Will we stay on LOA 93 until we have single carrier status and then the APA just dictates to us what we get? I don't know, do you? One of my questions.

If I remember right Pollock had a seat on the board, how did that work for us.

 

[Pi brat]

If I remember right Pollock had a seat on the board, how did that work for us.

That's not an answer. I want your vision. All you have done is bad mouth this thing and Hummel since before it was done. You must have an idea of what will happen if we say no, so lay it out. Here's your time to shine.

 

[Res Judicata]

I'm voting YES....I don't care what it says. Anything to expedite the death of USCABA.

 

[Pi brat]

I'm voting YES....I don't care what it says. Anything to expedite the death of USCABA.

I'm voting YES....I don't care what it says. Anything to expedite the death of USCABA.

Another brain dead jihadist.

 

[Keroseneuser]

, but I still can't figure out how $40million/5000 pilots equals 10k/pilot.

East has about 2800 active pilots and quick look at west looks like around 1200 active. Guessing the 10k is only for active pilots. those out on medical or mil leave etc are not in the number. Guess the 10k figure could have been a rounded number that the note taker took. 40 mill/ 5000 is 8k per. But it could also take in account the expected time it is to take effect. 12 months from now? 18? 24? With retirements starting in 3.5 months that may have something to do with it. Of course since the "no furlough clause" is only active at the time of implementation it is possible there are other plans creeping around in the companies head to be done before they have to deal with "no furloughs"

The question remains what else is "in the agreement" that affects people without stating that it affects people. This managment does not have a good track record in that department. They have numerous examples of say one thing and do another. (furloughs of 09 etc) Any vote I make will be weighed with that in mind. Basically at this point I automatically expect that they are lying to me and the burden is on them to convince me otherwise.

 

[Claxon]

The deadline is a negotiating strategy. Vote NO and there will be two more deadlines after this one, each manufactured an each more critical than the last. LCC has shown their hand. They want scope. They want COC. There is a price they are willing to pay and this is not it. This is there feeling out offer. WouldHAVE YOU sell your house using a yes in answer to this styled type of offer? If you were the buyer of COC, wouldn't you low ball the first offer. This is not a vote on a real AGREEEMENT. THIS IS A UNITY VOTE TO GIVE CREDIBILITY AND STRENGTH TO THE NAC. I VOTE ... NO

What! An eastern pilot voting the first offer down? This is not supposed to happen. The rest of the group is wetting their pants so they can give the AA pilots the 200 million pension infusion. What do you get? 10k? A pilot actually willing to say no to an attorney who has no skin in the game? This is quite alarming.......

 

[Pi brat]

I'm waiting 9. What's your vision, or are you waiting for a call back with the answers?

 

[jetjok1]

I agree that we should get something in trade for the COC clause, but you're thinking you have a 250 Ferrari when it's a 69' Camaro instead. Parker can find a way around it easy enough if you don't want to play ball with him. Some of you guys seem to have a history of trying to grab the whole cake, getting greedy and ending up with zippo. Not learning from your mistakes is the definition of stupid and sometimes stupid hurts.

Beany

Wrong.....the history shows we take the first crap deal that comes along and end up with table scraps. If Driver is accurate......this is another first crap deal. To throw 10k at each guy is a monumental slap in the face for the sacrifices we made. If he's even remotely accurate, I know how I'm going to vote ........if I even get to. I agree with Phoenix........there's more on the table and we deserve to see it.