AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

That is one scary dude. I've never met anyone with so much pent up hate. And it leaks out everywhere.

Driver...

He's about to be muzzled.

 

[A320 Driver]

I'd encourage everyone to seriously support a recall to those gutless reps who felt the membership couldn't be trusted with a vote. They should know they have no hand to play, except what Parker gives them out of pity. This BPR is the same braintrust that decided that since they couldn't understand PBS, they should fight it.

A track record of relying on ignorance is worth recalling.

My guess is that the PHX reps went along to give an appearance of solidarity. Suckered again!

I can't tell if you are serious or not. I thought the PHX reps conducted themselves very well, asked a ton of questions to the advisors and voiced many legitimate concerns. Eric even took the lunch hour to talk to the pilots in attendance to get a feel for how this was affecting everyone.

Driver...

 

[Move2CLT]

Why did the deal "suck" for the PHX reps? And "hint" it was not because of 40 pilots who were stupid enough not to take recall with merger mania in the news. Red Herring.East "yes" votes will soon be flowing. Just watch.Film at eleven. Greeter

There are still a few items the NAC feels can be improved upon and they're still meeting with the company to hash them out.

Your cowardly east reps sent it out with a no recommendation to cover their asses when you easties vote it in.

They dont want to be blamed for killing your DOH dream. Theyre going to let the pilot group take the blame.

 

[Move2CLT]

"Plausible deniability"

"We told you so"

"Our hands were tied"

"We forgot our reading glasses"

"Hummel made me do it"

Driver,

I'm going to have to say that you impress me with your rational, common sense thinking.

 

[Move2CLT]

I can't tell if you are serious or not. I thought the PHX reps conducted themselves very well, asked a ton of questions to the advisors and voiced many legitimate concerns. Eric even took the lunch hour to talk to the pilots in attendance to get a feel for how this was affecting everyone.

Driver...

The NAC is not 100% happy with the MOU but would vote yes if they had to right now.

This is the difference between status quo and being left out of the merger vs more money and having a say.

The quality of the next two years hinges on this vote. Once the NDA is signed, negs stop and we are stand with an MOU or status quo.

Don't over-reach easties. Your history has many examples of what happens when you do.

 

[A320 Driver]

The NAC is not 100% happy with the MOU but would vote yes if they had to right now.

This is the difference between status quo and being left out of the merger vs more money and having a say.

The quality of the next two years hinges on this vote. Once the NDA is signed, negs stop and we are stand with an MOU or status quo.

Don't over-reach easties. Your history has many examples of what happens when you do.

That is just about exactly what the NAC said. It has a lot of give and take but overall puts us in a much better bargaining position down the road. To their credit, they didn't try to sugar coat it but did show in great detail how the new protections built in to keep us from being targeted for a reduction in flying work. The former NAC chairman was carrying a proxy for someone...what a whiner. Sounded like a jilted girlfriend. The grievance chairman was also very animated. He too has a history for sticking this groups neck out unnecessarily from his days as the PHL F/O rep.

Driver...

 

[Move2CLT]

I sure hope you guys don't over-reach again.

Your sanity is refreshing and I hope you guys take Crimi down.

 

[luvthe9]

My guess is that the PHX reps went along to give an appearance of solidarity. Suckered again!

Yo Luvn, I think you don't have a clue what your talking about and are to stupid to figure it out, my guess is every west pilot will turn this down, Your PHX reps just saved your sorry arsses, let us know when you figure it out. I'm not sure but maybe Clear knows the answer. I bet Move does not know!!!

 

[Move2CLT]

Hey easties.

Fatboy is the reason you keep over-reaching. It's been guys like him that f it up for you.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

That is just about exactly what the NAC said. It has a lot of give and take but overall puts us in a much better bargaining position down the road. To their credit, they didn't try to sugar coat it but did show in great detail how the new protections built in to keep us from being targeted for a reduction in flying work. The former NAC chairman was carrying a proxy for someone...what a whiner. Sounded like a jilted girlfriend. The grievance chairman was also very animated. He too has a history for sticking this groups neck out unnecessarily from his days as the PHL F/O rep.

Driver...

Your kidding , you mean unlike GARY"GIVE IT AWAY HUMMEL" who conducts a good meeting, the grievance chairman was very animated because he has egg on his face for being the mastermind behind the whole MOU!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Yo Luvn, I think you don't have a clue what your talking about and are to stupid to figure it out, my guess is every west pilot will turn this down, Your PHX reps just saved your sorry arsses, let us know when you figure it out. I'm not sure but maybe Clear knows the answer. I bet Move does not know!!!

Since the WEST does 28% east flying with no fleet min where do you think the cuts will come from first? MM! Jetblue, AA could easily pick up that flying with no scope or min fleet!

 

[wings396]

Once again I am gonna ask this, the AFA and three IAM CBA's have the Change of Control language.

Unless the company gets four other CBAs to remove the language the COC is still on company property.

To the best of my knowlegde,the IAM-FSA group no longer has this. It went away with all of the other goodies with the 2008 T/A. Profit Sharing, Snap-backs, etc... Another fine job from our leadership......

 

[Piedmont1984]

Well, I've read the BPR minutes for today as well as the latest CC update.

Think I'll release the parking brake and return to the gate - looks like a lengthy delay.

Does anyone have any second thoughts about those 'Compass Corruption' boys and how they will sell us out?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

[background=transparent]Not good enough for a bankruptcy Judge?[/background]

[background=transparent]But good enough for the Pilots of US Airways![/background]





























[background=transparent]Dear Pilots of US Airways:[/background]

[background=transparent]Below find an excerpt from the latest APA newsletter. You will note that the highlighted sections get to the meat of the matter. [/background]

[background=transparent]Our NAC have just presented to - and the Board of Pilot Representatives are seriously contemplating the sending out of, a deal so onerous that a Federal Bankruptcy Judge rejected much of it as an overreach by American Airlines management. Granted, the USAPA MOU is not exactly the same as American Management’s [/background][background=transparent]Last and Final Offer to the Pilots of American[/background][background=transparent]…but close enough to serve as food for thought; here it is, excerpted:[/background]

[background=transparent]“[/background][background=transparent]APA RESPONDS TO MANAGEMENT ADJUSTMENTS TO THE APRIL 19 TERM SHEET:[/background]

[background=transparent]Last Thursday, management made two changes to the April 19 term sheet in an effort to address the issues cited as concerns in Judge Sean Lane’s denial of management’s 1113 motion. On Friday, management filed a new motion, which again seeks to abrogate our contract. APA responded back to management Friday evening. To view the APA response, [/background][background=transparent]click here[/background][background=transparent]. In the response, APA requests updated information on the AMR business plan, which needs to reflect the current state of the industry, including recent pilot agreements at Delta and United airlines. In the bankruptcy process, the debtor is required to provide sufficient information to the union in order to properly evaluate company proposals.[/background]
[background=transparent]Management’s revised term sheet essentially mirrors current Green Book language on existing furlough protection. That contractual language was agreed to in the 2003 contract and states that management can furlough approximately 1,700 pilots until they reach FL Steed (the most junior pilot with contractual furlough protection).[/background]
[background=rgb(243, 164, 71)]Regarding the domestic code share revisions, management has proposed language similar to what was in the “last, best, final offer” that would authorize code sharing with both Alaska and Hawaiian airlines, and would loosely limit code sharing with other domestic airlines. For example, JetBlue code shares would be limited to 50 percent of American Airlines’ domestic available seat miles (ASMs). Management’s proposed international code share agreement would retain the original international baseline language. It would also reset the baseline to a lower number and stipulate that new routes would not be added to the baseline protection until they had been flown for a three-year period.”[/background]

[background=transparent]The vast majority of us at US Airways have seen that Bankruptcy Judges have a huge tolerance for crappy deals, including the one which ended in the termination of your pension and mine. So....how BAD must this deal be when it makes a judge find the courage to say, “NO”?[/background]
[background=transparent]It features virtually unlimited code sharing and the freedom for management to furlough with impunity. The bankruptcy judge said no, the pilots of American Airlines said NO![/background]

[background=transparent]Let me preface the following comments and observations with this: [/background][background=transparent]A hearty [/background][background=transparent]thank you,[/background][background=transparent] to President Gary Hummel and the Negotiation Advisory Committee[/background][background=transparent], (past and present members), for finally moving the ball forward! Four or more years of contract stagnation is ended and now the timeline for serious negotiations has [/background][background=transparent]just begun[/background][background=transparent]. [/background][background=transparent] NOW…on to the US Airways MOU:[/background]

[background=transparent]Note the phrase, “[/background][background=transparent]just begun[/background][background=transparent]”, in reference to negotiations. Timing and ripeness are the keys to a mutually acceptable agreement. What the NAC have been able to extract from Management tells me two things: the company is ready to BEGIN negotiations, but they are[/background][background=transparent] not[/background][background=transparent] ready to give their best offer, just yet. This first offer, (which the company has characterized as their last) – stinks on ice and they know it. Below, in outline form, are just some of the reasons why:[/background]

[background=transparent]What the Board of Pilot Representatives is about to ask us to vote on is simply an attempt by our management, to get you and me to voluntarily sign onto a bankruptcy born, gun to the head, term sheet. The Pilots of American Airlines saw a chance to freeze their pensions, rather than lose them altogether and gave away mightily to do so. For the first time in a decade, the Pilots of US Airways are not in a position of weakness and vulnerability; why would we put ourselves there now?[/background]

[background=transparent]The MOU and its attendant Term Sheet are virtually the same document as the one that the Pilots of American have just recently - [/background][background=transparent] soundly[/background][background=transparent] rejected, as did the bankruptcy judge, (in part). If we sign on for this program, look for virtually no growth, including none from our vaunted attrition, since the “efficiencies” of the Preferential Bidding System will wipe out most of our attrition gains. Look for stagnation for years, as the airline will shrink, as airlines always do, after mergers. The “furlough protections” are merely proportional loss mechanisms.[/background]
[background=transparent]We are giving up the very best Scope language, minimum fleet and block hour protections and Change of Control language; and for what? If we sign on to the MOU, we are tied to a deal we didn’t negotiate and one that American benefits from to a hugely greater degree than we do.[/background]

[background=transparent]The higher pay rates, especially the A-330 rates are illusory; the $212.00/ hr. rate is dependent upon the kindness of the American Pilots, who would be required to find $12,000,000 in savings from their side, in order for that to come to fruition. Pilots in general and American Pilots in particular aren’t overly selfless. Their history in mergers is that of being tough, ruthless and self serving….not bad attributes in a transaction of this kind, if you are on their team![/background]

[background=transparent]American flies fewer hours (generally) than we, so the effect of any hourly rate increase is blunted, by their monthly hour caps.[/background]

[background=transparent]The three-year, “Parity Review” with Delta and United pay rates is [/background][background=transparent]not[/background][background=transparent] based on Hourly Pay rates, but on a nebulous concept of overall costs for manning the flight deck of the respective airlines. Our older average age and top-of-scale pilots will work against us....again. Also, who is the keeper of such esoteric data as the “total cockpit costs” of Delta and United? Who is going to calculate that cost and cost comparison for USAPA, or APA?? How can our Grievance Committee credibly fight this one? Given the history of endless waits for arbitrated rulings how long might this new battle rage?[/background]

[background=transparent]We get ZERO improvement in our pension scheme, in this deal. [/background][background=transparent]The percentages do go up,(14%) - [/background][background=transparent]but we will be paying for the frozen Defined Benefit Pensions of 8,000 American Pilots[/background][background=transparent], that money will come out of a pool that the company has decided must pay [/background][background=transparent]all [/background][background=transparent]pilot costs….how much will left for you and me?[/background]
[background=transparent]Does anyone reading this have a working knowledge of the American Airlines “Green Book”, (their working agreement)?? That will be [/background][background=transparent]our[/background][background=transparent] working agreement and we can kiss the Bid Sheet, Bid Lines and everything else we have known, goodbye.[/background]

[background=transparent]The [/background][background=transparent]pay rate guaranties[/background][background=transparent] for those of us, who will lose our bigger airplanes to other bases, [/background][background=transparent]will go away, the instant we can hold the bigger airplane anywhere; (LAX, for example). [/background][background=transparent]So, you will commute from PHL to LAX for the higher pay and like it, or, fly the E-190 for much less money in your current crew base.[/background]

[background=transparent]Recently, Doug Parker took the time to go to DFW. His mission was to grin and grip with the new President of APA. This comes on the heels of Parker’s plan, earlier this year to negotiate directly with APA, in secret, while stonewalling USAPA. [/background]

[background=transparent]Anybody out there have any lingering doubt that US Airways is, in Parker’s mind - [/background][background=transparent]the old[/background][background=transparent], tired wife, so to speak? You know, the one who raised the kids, put Parker through business school and so forth. US Airways is the old what’s-her-name, who now he is ready to trade in for a sporty new model! [/background]

[background=transparent]Well Mr. Parker, like all good divorces, this one is going to be messy and very, very expensive. If you want to throw over the pilots who got you to where you are, it’s gonna be a glorious, long and very public fight.[/background]

[background=transparent]This [/background][background=transparent]should[/background][background=transparent] be a happy time for the Pilots of US Airways; we aren’t in bankruptcy. We are making money and lots of it; for the corporation, anyhow. And yet, as of now, the only offer on the table is one in which we VOLUNTARILY jump off the nicely shaded path we are on, into the fetid swamp that is APA’s bankruptcy contract. [/background]

[background=transparent]Remember…the MOU that USAPA is asking you to vote on, basically locks USAPA into terms that Mr. Parker negotiated, behind our backs, with APA, who were bewitched by Parker’s offer to freeze, rather than terminate, their pensions. Well, a lot has changed in the five months since, all of which should result in a better deal for ALL the pilots. Where is APA in all this? How come USAPA and APA aren’t linking arms to present a consolidated front to US Airways management?[/background]

[background=transparent]In the next week or so, the Compass Correction will be fleshing out more details about why this MOU is not in your best interest. Stay tuned.[/background]

[background=transparent]Now, it is our turn to say [/background][background=transparent]no[/background][background=transparent]...But will we do so? I remain optimistic that our history at US Airways has taught our pilots lessons that will have us saying NO, to ridiculous offers. The Leaders and Representatives of USAPA will, I trust, send this MOU out with a resounding NO VOTE Recommendation. Then, when and if the merger is ripe, the serious negotiations can begin.[/background]

[background=transparent]Fraternally,[/background]

This deal has more holes than...
































[background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]
[/background]

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

BTW, this will make a great GRISHAM novel, the COMPASS CORRUPTION crafted this MOU now deny it, LMFAO! MM! Notice the HEARTY "THANK YOU " to the NAC, can't wait for that fallout!