AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

I will pose this question: Can USAPA actually "blow this deal up" if the BPR can't endorse it?

It seems a pretty important queston to ask. If the BPR or those opposed cannot in fact stop the deal from happening then that is a totally different question for this pilot group. The leverage is not in Change of Control, it is in stopping the merger.

If USAPA has a nuke, there are those who would to use it or at least threaten to use it. What if what we really have is just a "lady finger", or a "bottle rocket"?

I would like someone to tell me how USAPA can stop this merger. What are the actual steps to be taken and what is the actual estimate for success? I believe that this quetsion has not been vetted properly. Do we get status with the Bankruptcy court? How much clout will we have on captitol hill? Will the company be able to line up enough supporters to get the deal done despite USAPA?

Do the combined carriers have enough cash that they can do it on theri own? I seem to remember that this is in excess of 6 billion in cash in the combined AMR / US company.

I for one would like to know that the threat of derailing this merger is real before we play that card.

Seems to me the real issue is always the contract. The only way a contract becomes a contract is via a "yes" vote (often capitulated under mountains of fear) or by bankruptcy judge imposition.

DUI says he will make over a billion dollars every year. Unless he is fibbing he doesn't need to have any concessions. I can't imagine why he would fib, unless our concessions helps him get to that billion dollars.

 

[Metroyet]

WoW.....
Gary, I really worked my ass off for you to try and get the CLT vote for you when you ran and you embarrass me with a MOU that even a bankpurt judge would dismiss WAKE UP!!! This is no game we hold the cards We tell Parker if he wants a merger it is ON OUR TERMS or NO MERGER!!!!
Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

If one ever wondered why the East pilots are at the bottom of the barrel, bottom of the sewer, (with a lisp) in terms of wages and working conditions....simply reference above. You guys are so filled with rage, hate and self loathing that you can't see what is plainly obvious. You have no leverage. This isn't a TA and not at all the point in time to attempt to recover to the year 1985. This MOU is what I would consider a base hit. A single for sure, maybe steal second if your lucky. These East guys always see it as bottom of the ninth, bases loaded, one out to go, game 7 of the World Series, down by one, swing for the fence and ride off into history on the shoulders of glory. IOW, delusional.

This should be a no brainier yes vote. For the first time since the Big Emotional Breakdown after the nic came out and they took their ball and went home....SEVEN YEARS AGO, the East pilots have a crystal clear choice between SOMETHING or NOTHING and the usual suspects don't want SOMETHING they demand EVERYTHING which, once again, will get them NOTHING...beyond nothing actually the continued staggering cost of LOA93 3 ADDITIONAL years not at parity with UAL/DAL...which could be hundreds of millions of dollars more LOST. Don't even mention what the APA is going to attempt to do before they're legally obligated to represent you. They're going to do what they can to hang you by your feet and gut you like a proverbial fish first. All the while, the AFO's got their NO vote on this MOU and the ENTIRE pilot group stands on the side lines and watches the carnage HELPLESS. Helpless and pouting they didn't get the grand slam win on the no brainier MOU vote.

I've spewed my fair share of vitriol on this board over the years, but all that aside, (for now🙂) let me offer my humble advise. DON'T BE STUPID....AGAIN. This MOU isn't the magic Delorean that will sweep you back to the year 1985. It is however the only measurable win USAPA may EVER have a chance to deliver. Don't fk it up.

 

[Beancounter]

You lay that at the east pilots feet yet all 3 PHX reps voted to not even send the MOU out and 2 out of 3 voted to put a NO recommendation on it. So, what's the deal with that? Did they drink the water in USAPA headquarters? West usually goes 180 from east. You guys seem to want this merger as much or more than the east, so why the no votes from your reps?

From what I have been told they voted NO because they wanted a change in the furlough protection prior to it going out. The currently furloughed AWA pilots would have no protection once they are recalled. The company from what I understand was willing to change that for the 40 or so pilots. The east of course doesn't give a sh!t about the west and sent it out anyways. Nice, huh?

Beany

 

[767one]

If one ever wondered why the East pilots are at the bottom of the barrel, bottom of the sewer, (with a lisp) in terms of wages and working conditions....simply reference above. You guys are so filled with rage, hate and self loathing that you can't see what is plainly obvious. You have no leverage. This isn't a TA and not at all the point in time to attempt to recover to the year 1985. This MOU is what I would consider a base hit. A single for sure, maybe steal second if your lucky. These East guys always see it as bottom of the ninth, bases loaded, one out to go, game 7 of the World Series, down by one, swing for the fence and ride off into history on the shoulders of glory. IOW, delusional.

This should be a no brainier yes vote. For the first time since the Big Emotional Breakdown after the nic came out and they took their ball and went home....SEVEN YEARS AGO, the East pilots have a crystal clear choice between SOMETHING or NOTHING and the usual suspects don't want SOMETHING they demand EVERYTHING which, once again, will get them NOTHING...beyond nothing actually the continued staggering cost of LOA93 3 ADDITIONAL years not at parity with UAL/DAL...which could be hundreds of millions of dollars more LOST. Don't even mention what the APA is going to attempt to do before they're legally obligated to represent you. They're going to do what they can to hang you by your feet and gut you like a proverbial fish first. All the while, the AFO's got their NO vote on this MOU and the ENTIRE pilot group stands on the side lines and watches the carnage HELPLESS. Helpless and pouting they didn't get the grand slam win on the no brainier MOU vote.

I've spewed my fair share of vitriol on this board over the years, but all that aside, (for now🙂) let me offer my humble advise. DON'T BE STUPID....AGAIN. This MOU isn't the magic Delorean that will sweep you back to the year 1985. It is however the only measurable win USAPA may EVER have a chance to deliver. Don't fk it up.

Did I miss something? I thought the PHX reps voted against even sending it out for a vote. To me it is not an east or west issue it is an east and west issue.

Bob

 

[Beancounter]

Did I miss something? I thought the PHX reps voted against even sending it out for a vote. To me it is not an east or west issue it is an east and west issue.

Bob

Read previous post.

Bean

 

[767one]

Read previous post.

Bean

Thanks Bean,

I think leaving out those guys out of the MOU is a good reason to vote no and try for another pass.


Bob

 

[767one]

It could be the company doesn't want anyone even attempting to screw up their plan intil it is too late.


Bob

 

[BLT]

USAPA should demand an industry leading contract via an MOU with ZERO concessions, while the company is under no obligation to negotiate with the pilots.
Now is the time to press our minimal leverage into the abyss. It is time to go for broke. Its the best damn contract ever or several more years of LOA93 and no representation. The APA will look after our interests for us.
The NAC only achieved 99% of what the BPR tasked it with. That is shameful. They should have achieved at least 172%. Did they think the BPR would just forget about that 1%. Terrible, just terrible.
If the company doesn't agree to our onerous demands than at least they will continue to save millions every year in pilot costs. I bet they didn't think of that. They just aren't as smart as we are.

 

[A320 Driver]

USAPA should demand an industry leading contract via an MOU with ZERO concessions, while the company is under no obligation to negotiate with the pilots.
Now is the time to press our minimal leverage into the abyss. It is time to go for broke. Its the best damn contract ever or several more years of LOA93 and no representation. The APA will look after our interests for us.
The NAC only achieved 99% of what the BPR tasked it with. That is shameful. They should have achieved at least 172%. Did they think the BPR would just forget about that 1%. Terrible, just terrible.
If the company doesn't agree to our onerous demands than at least they will continue to save millions every year in pilot costs. I bet they didn't think of that. They just aren't as smart as we are.

I'm guessing this is some kind of sarcasm...

 

[flyer63]

If one ever wondered why the East pilots are at the bottom of the barrel, bottom of the sewer, (with a lisp) in terms of wages and working conditions....simply reference above. You guys are so filled with rage, hate and self loathing that you can't see what is plainly obvious. You have no leverage. This isn't a TA and not at all the point in time to attempt to recover to the year 1985. This MOU is what I would consider a base hit. A single for sure, maybe steal second if your lucky. These East guys always see it as bottom of the ninth, bases loaded, one out to go, game 7 of the World Series, down by one, swing for the fence and ride off into history on the shoulders of glory. IOW, delusional.

This should be a no brainier yes vote. For the first time since the Big Emotional Breakdown after the nic came out and they took their ball and went home....SEVEN YEARS AGO, the East pilots have a crystal clear choice between SOMETHING or NOTHING and the usual suspects don't want SOMETHING they demand EVERYTHING which, once again, will get them NOTHING...beyond nothing actually the continued staggering cost of LOA93 3 ADDITIONAL years not at parity with UAL/DAL...which could be hundreds of millions of dollars more LOST. Don't even mention what the APA is going to attempt to do before they're legally obligated to represent you. They're going to do what they can to hang you by your feet and gut you like a proverbial fish first. All the while, the AFO's got their NO vote on this MOU and the ENTIRE pilot group stands on the side lines and watches the carnage HELPLESS. Helpless and pouting they didn't get the grand slam win on the no brainier MOU vote.

I've spewed my fair share of vitriol on this board over the years, but all that aside, (for now🙂) let me offer my humble advise. DON'T BE STUPID....AGAIN. This MOU isn't the magic Delorean that will sweep you back to the year 1985. It is however the only measurable win USAPA may EVER have a chance to deliver. Don't fk it up.

Is that you Lance ?, heard you where in CLT today talking about your yes vote.

Sorry to say with a big PR firm and an attack on capital hill there is leverage. This deal is tenouis at best

 

[Move2CLT]

Thanks Bean,

I think leaving out those guys out of the MOU is a good reason to vote no and try for another pass.


Bob

I'm wondering what you mean by "another pass". Once the NDA is signed, we don't get any more passes.

 

[Move2CLT]

USAPA should demand an industry leading contract via an MOU with ZERO concessions, while the company is under no obligation to negotiate with the pilots.
Now is the time to press our minimal leverage into the abyss. It is time to go for broke. Its the best damn contract ever or several more years of LOA93 and no representation. The APA will look after our interests for us.
The NAC only achieved 99% of what the BPR tasked it with. That is shameful. They should have achieved at least 172%. Did they think the BPR would just forget about that 1%. Terrible, just terrible.
If the company doesn't agree to our onerous demands than at least they will continue to save millions every year in pilot costs. I bet they didn't think of that. They just aren't as smart as we are.

LMAO!! That was excellent!

 

[Move2CLT]

Sorry to say with a big PR firm and an attack on capital hill there is leverage. This deal is tenouis at best

Ya, that's it.

 

[eastcoast]

An Opinion.......My fellow airmen,...

Opinion......I don't know what Hummel is up to...

WoW.....
Gary, I really worked my ass off...

You sure are working hard trying to TELL all of us how we should vote. That right there raises red flags. Post after post of so called "opinions." This sounds more like the same old peer pressure tactics used for decades by this collective group, which I've referenced in previous posts, trying to strong arm people to bend to your will.

It simply proves that you are not interested in democracy unless it furthers your personal agenda. When rule of majority doesn't serve you, it's back to the same old tactics. Here's a piece of advice... stow the condescending attitude. You are not smarter, more informed, or more experienced than the rest of us. I trust that the truth will lead my fellow pilots to the right decision. Your fear mongering, thinly veiled as "opinion," only singles you out as the person to ignore.

The MOU is far from perfect. It does offer some benefit over the status quo. I will vote what I believe is best based on the facts at hand, regardless of your opinion or the opinions of anyone else on EITHER side of this discussion. I will make my own informed decision, thank you very much! Your rhetoric only pushes me further away from your point of view.

 

[eastcoast]

SEVEN YEARS AGO, the East pilots have a crystal clear choice between SOMETHING or NOTHING and the usual suspects don't want SOMETHING they demand EVERYTHING which, once again, will get them NOTHING...

Very accurate summary. The gun some people think they are holding, has a bright red muzzle, no firing pin, and no live ammo. Who do you think you are going to scare with that?

This is not a vote on a JCBA folks. Keep this in mind, ignore the hysteria and rhetoric, inform yourselves (from accurate sources, not internet forums), and vote accordingly. It's that simple.