AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

No, actually the fun starts tomorrow at the CLT meeting. Lots of angry pilots want to know why the CLT reps are salting information in an effort to turn the talks with the APA and the company into ANOTHER trainwreck. The hard questions WILL be asked and answers demanded.

Driver...

So!

Did anyone ask the hard questions and get the answers? Where the CLT reps held accountable or where the pilots cowed by McKee and his blind followers?

 

[luvthe9]

luv

Isn't Eric Rowe the former PHL rep who, along with Ciabattoni, was sanctioned by ALPA and who stood in front of a packed conference room in Herndon and literally screamed that the only way we would give up our seniority is if they took it from our cold dead hands? You think he would sell us out? You really think JT would sell us out?
Trembling.

You are right, I stood by them in Herndon I was right next to them they did a great job no arguement on that at all, but for some reason they have changed their position, they will take any agreement at any cost for any raise and screw the junior people, why because they only have a few years left. ME ME ME takes over I guess.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Yes, I believe you're right. The problem is that when you say, "interests of the pilots," you're only referring to the east pilots, whether you mean to or not.

Bean

Well, allow me to bifurcate that. Concerning the SLI, yes - it's an east centric discussion. But everything else - the possible merger, MOU, LOA93/C2004, etc. I'm referring to all pilots.

 

[Piedmont1984]

You are right, I stood by them in Herndon I was right next to them they did a great job no arguement on that at all, but for some reason they have changed their position, they will take any agreement at any cost for any raise and screw the junior people, why because they only have a few years left. ME ME ME takes over I guess.

Just who are the junior guys. is it the senior F/O's who will soon be changing seats when attrition commences in earnest? How about the real junior guys who aren't on the cusp of upgrading? How about the 190 F/Os who can't afford to eat decently on a trip? What's best for them? What's best for the most?

Anyway, lets read the MOU first and then argue about it.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Anyway, lets read the MOU first and then argue about it.

But that's not the way those wanting to get/keep power operate. It's been the same at least since the RC4/GAG battles for power - after there are real facts to debate it's too late for the FUD to work. The last thing those spreading FUD want is pilots thinking for themselves...

Jim

 

[Phoenix]

Hard to negotiate when Parker he has no desire to, askTerry Brown she always blamed the company not for wanting to negoitiate.

Its hard to negotiate against the company when folks change horses in the middle of the stream by upending the NAC with give away specialists, and scramble to get a vote on anything (brought to us by the same folks who begged to give away the pension without a vote).

When have "yes men" ever been able to negotiate more from the company.. and more give backs don't count as "more".

 

[luvthe9]

Just who are the junior guys. is it the senior F/O's who will soon be changing seats when attrition commences in earnest? How about the real junior guys who aren't on the cusp of upgrading? How about the 190 F/Os who can't afford to eat decently on a trip? What's best for them? What's best for the most?

Anyway, lets read the MOU first and then argue about it.

All that you mention, I hope everyone has that chance to move up DON"T count on attrition, it's meangless is we take on PBS (jobs lost ) and the most important is SCOPE.

 

[Res Judicata]

Its hard to negotiate against the company when folks change horses in the middle of the stream by upending the NAC with give away specialists, and scramble to get a vote on anything (brought to us by the same folks who begged to give away the pension without a vote).

When have "yes men" ever been able to negotiate more from the company.. and more give backs don't count as "more".

Oh yes. The Cleary approach was SO successful. LOL!!! The mental deficiencies out East are spectacularly unbelievable. Never ceases to amaze.

 

[cleardirect]

You are right, I stood by them in Herndon I was right next to them they did a great job no arguement on that at all, but for some reason they have changed their position, they will take any agreement at any cost for any raise and screw the junior people, why because they only have a few years left. ME ME ME takes over I guess.

So you chastise the senior people for thinking about themselves. When you think they should be thinking about you junior guys. That sure sounds like ME, ME, ME give the junior guys more.

You are right about one thing. The senior guys do only have a few years left and they gave you junior guys a 5 years break. You want them to sacrifice a even more years for you so they can retire on LOA 93, give you their seat then you can get a raise and a new contract after they are gone. Only thing they get is not having to listen to you junior guys whine for 4 days, otherwise what is in it for the senior guys to delay any longer?

 

[luvthe9]

Oh yes. The Cleary approach was SO successful.

Hey, a westie that rrealizes that for for the first time we have not given up anything. Talk to us tomorrow it will be the beginning of a smaller airline.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Its hard to negotiate against the company when folks change horses in the middle of the stream by upending the NAC with give away specialists, and scramble to get a vote on anything (brought to us by the same folks who begged to give away the pension without a vote).

When have "yes men" ever been able to negotiate more from the company.. and more give backs don't count as "more".

When have 'f&%k you and the horse you rode in on' men ever been able to negotiate more from the company.

 

[cleardirect]

Hard to negotiate when Parker he has no desire to, askTerry Brown she always blamed the company not for wanting to negoitiate.

If that were a true statement why can't usapa get any action from the mediation board? If it is the companys fault as you said ALWAYS she has the ability to do something about it.

Why is it we are parked instead of released if it is ALWAYS the company fault?

Could it be that as long a usapa refuses to use the arbitrated list we are not going to get a contract? Is it the companies fault that usapa refuses to use the Nicolau list?

 

[cleardirect]

Hey, a westie that rrealizes that for for the first time we have not given up anything. Talk to us tomorrow it will be the beginning of a smaller airline.

Does the MOU kick in tomorrow? So chicken little how is that the beginning of a smaller airline?

Just because an agreement might go out for a vote does that mean it will pass? Are you cowards incapable of voting no on anything? If it is a bad deal vote no. If it is an acceptable deal what is it you guys always say??????? Oh yeah, MAJORITY RULES! If a majority of pilots thinks it is OK it will pass and you will know what it is like to be in the minority. ONE MAN ONE VOTE right. That is what usapa was built on right.

Are the east pilots really this susceptible to fear tactics or just you?

How about you just chill for a day or two and let the pilots actually read the document and see what is in the whole thing instead of trying to get your way through fear and intimidation. You might look like a fool once the facts come out.

 

[luvthe9]

So you chastise the senior people for thinking about themselves. When you think they should be thinking about you junior guys. That sure sounds like ME, ME, ME give the junior guys more.

No clear you are wrong, I have told you where I stand on the list (approx) I come from the old school always take care of the junior guys, I'm sorry it's a concept you don't get but you are not alone, again that's me not some of my classmates.

 

[cleardirect]

From an election message.

STEPHEN BRADFORD ENDORSES JOE STEIN AS DCA CHAIRMAN!!

Janet is being manipulated and I would bet a buck this was written by pilots not even based in DCA with you and me! I repeat, while Janet may be a good resource for USAPA, SHE IS BEING MANIPULATED by those from outside the DCA domicile. Her campaign piece reeks of political elements of PHL and CLT.

This is what your union has come to, absolutely ridiculous and farcical allegations; conspiracy theories and out and out lies.

Shame on those who operate in this manner; we deserve better than this. We deserve a DCA chairman who can think for himself instead of letting others put words in his or her mouth. JOE STEIN IS THAT KIND OF PERSON.

The founder of usapa is now saying that usapa is no better and in fact might be worse than ALPA was. Interesting. That is what happens when you take away adult supervision. Gee Stevie the west tried to tell you that 4 years ago. But would any of you listen? NOOOOOOOO!

There you have it boys. Vote for Joe or vote for Janet to carry someone else's vote to the meeting. Anyone care to take a guess who is trying to gain back control?

While usapa has been entertaining at times I think the damage they have done is quite enough, it is time for the circus to fold up it's tent. The clowns are getting old and tired. The jokes are not funny anymore. Can not wait for the APA to take over and bring a little sanity and responsibility back to union politics.