AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[CallawayGolf]

Only when you sit back and do nothing, then you get what you deserve.

Sitting back and doing nothing should be the mission statement of USAPA since it is their Modus Operandi over the past five years. Oh, and wasting money on USA Today ads and engaging in an illegal job action don’t count as taking action unless you prefer to move farther away from your goal.

 

[Claxon]

Let s hope the western group agrees to no scope. It will be very funny watching them finally figure out what happened after the dust settles.

 

[Pi brat]

Only when you sit back and do nothing, then you get what you deserve.

Oh, you mean like the onboard thing. That worked out well.

Fighting the Nic and getting a contract, were mutually exclusive. Over a third of your pilot group is not only going to do nothing, it is going to do the opposite of what you want. That was a failure of the USAPA founders to clearly state that.

You've said you support the junior guys, that's admirable, but doing it the way USAPA has been doing it means we stay on LOA 93. No amount of chest thumping will change that. You cannot cost the company more than they are saving by this fight. That is just a fact and guys in the Cleary/McKee camp need to figure it out.

The majority of the pilots decided that Hummel was the best choice of what we had. McKee would have been a clear choice for the continuation of the Cleary regimes failure. We didn't choose that. Accept that a let him do his work. If then he fails as massively as Cleary did, then you can throw him out.

 

[cleardirect]

Let s hope the western group agrees to no scope. It will be very funny watching them finally figure out what happened after the dust settles.

Seriously! I really hope that you are not a pilot here. I would fear for my family putting them on any airplane you have any responsibility for.

usapa is the bargaining agent. The east has the majority of votes. The west can't agree to not scope. Besides we have scope protection now and what possible reason would we give up or agree to no scope?

You are to ignorant to even make logical arguments. Do us all a favor and just keep your mouth closed for awhile.

 

[nic4us]

Oh, you mean like the onboard thing. That worked out well.

Fighting the Nic and getting a contract, were mutually exclusive. Over a third of your pilot group is not only going to do nothing, it is going to do the opposite of what you want. That was a failure of the USAPA founders to clearly state that.

You've said you support the junior guys, that's admirable, but doing it the way USAPA has been doing it means we stay on LOA 93. No amount of chest thumping will chang
e that. You cannot cost the company more than they are saving by this fight. That is just a fact and guys in the Cleary/McKee camp need to figure it out.

Fighting the Nic and getting a contract were not "mutually exclusive" for usapa. You might be using the wrong term.

It was always usapa's plan to renege on the Nic by getting a contract...i.e "we will exchange labor peace for a cost nuetral contract"

What usapa founders should have said at their roadshows is we have exactly one lawyer telling us he will take our money to further this plan and other lawyers telling us what we want to do is illegal. But we are going with the little lawyer and the crew meal notion.

Go watch the PHX usapa roadshow. It was pointed out time and again why the plan was a failure. usapa's response was this meeting is over, and any east pilot that still bought into the scab agenda cannot claim that there was not sufficient notification of what a failure the plan would be.

One more thing..Luv and 767 etc..they support the "junior" guy by trying to help them steal a "senior" guys job. That is neither admirable or honorable.

 

[nic4us]

More examples

Seeham wrote a letter to Freund demanding that AWAPPA stop harrassing usapa.

In that letter Freund straight up told Seeham what usapa was attempting was illegal and to consider all usapa communications..e-mails etc...to be saved as evidence in the upcoming litigations.

The east ALPA contingent told the east pilots that usapa would not get them out of the Nic, and that the contrary would occur.

Also, the company did not weigh in prior to the election, because they can't legally influence a union election. But, all evidence from the company both prior to and following the usapa election was they agree that the Seeham plan is illegal.

So..everybody knew it was coming. Everybody knew what usapa wanted to do would not fly.

All this BS about MM, and Luv etc..taking the high ground of defending the "junior guy" is pure sewage. They are abetting an illegal attempt to steal something that is not theirs to have,,,,,end of story.

 

[nic4us]

Let s hope the western group agrees to no scope. It will be very funny watching them finally figure out what happened after the dust settles.

What is going to be truely funny is watching Move2 post a picture from his front porch in Ashville.

 

[luvthe9]

What is going to be truely funny is watching Move2 post a picture from his front porch in Ashville.

So now it Move2ASH, which one is it?

 

[Pi brat]

Fighting the Nic and getting a contract were not "mutually exclusive" for usapa. You might be using the wrong term.

It was always usapa's plan to renege on the Nic by getting a contract...i.e "we will exchange labor peace for a cost nuetral contract"

What usapa founders should have said at their roadshows is we have exactly one lawyer telling us he will take our money to further this plan and other lawyers telling us what we want to do is illegal. But we are going with the little lawyer and the crew meal notion.

Go watch the PHX usapa roadshow. It was pointed out time and again why the plan was a failure. usapa's response was this meeting is over, and any east pilot that still bought into the scab agenda cannot claim that there was not sufficient notification of what a failure the plan would be.

One more thing..Luv and 767 etc..they support the "junior" guy by trying to help them steal a "senior" guys job. That is neither admirable or honorable.

Maybe I should have said "they should have known the two were mutually exclusive." Many of your west brothers disagree with you. How many times have we read on here that delay was USAPA only real intention?

I thought they really thought they could pull it off. I've had many tell me that I just don't understand when I would tell them that I didn't think USAPA's plan would work, in the end. There are still a bunch of guys that believe we will go to arbitration with a DOH list. I just say "we'll see, I doubt it."

 

[Pi brat]

What is going to be truely funny is watching Move2 post a picture from his front porch in Ashville.

It's Asheville, with an e. I thought he we was going to Davidson. Big difference.

 

[luvthe9]

Wow good turn out in CLT today 50 plus, King made a fool of himself by just telling everyone he does not like them (CLT Reps), Burdick an absolute idiot does not understand anything. stand by for tomorrow, company wants to ram this MOU right way down our throat, realize there should be no rush. Gary did not want us to vote on this MOU thanks to all those who put the pressure on to let the membership to vote. Caibattoni, Rowe, Manear, Thomas and those compass corruptions boys are going to sell us out I bet. Thanks to all the check airmen(some senior) that were there and fully understand what's going on.

 

[Piedmont1984]

luv

Could you elaborate?

I have been talking to the CLT reps, specifically SC and DI. They left me with the impression that THEY do not want us to vote on this MOU. That impression was verified by the most recent CLT "firewall" update.

Isn't Eric Rowe the former PHL rep who, along with Ciabattoni, was sanctioned by ALPA and who stood in front of a packed conference room in Herndon and literally screamed that the only way we would give up our seniority is if they took it from our cold dead hands? You think he would sell us out? You really think JT would sell us out?

BTW, I don't recall ALPA National sanctioning any of the CLT reps. Of course I could have been absent that day.

I think what we have here is a failure to communicate. Two camps who hate each other, who truly have the interests of the pilots in mind but can't get past their personal animosities.

Kinda like here.

Trembling.

 

[Beancounter]

It's Asheville, with an e. I thought he we was going to Davidson. Big difference.

I think you're right, he wants to move to Davidson. If I was forced to CLT I'd definitely want to live in Asheville. Just me though.

Bean

 

[Beancounter]

luv

Could you elaborate?

I have been talking to the CLT reps, specifically SC and DI. They left me with the impression that THEY do not want us to vote on this MOU. That impression was verified by the most recent CLT "firewall" update.

Isn't Eric Rowe the former PHL rep who, along with Ciabattoni, was sanctioned by ALPA and who stood in front of a packed conference room in Herndon and literally screamed that the only way we would give up our seniority is if they took it from our cold dead hands? You think he would sell us out? You really think JT would sell us out?

BTW, I don't recall ALPA National sanctioning any of the CLT reps. Of course I could have been absent that day.

I think what we have here is a failure to communicate. Two camps who hate each other, who truly have the interests of the pilots in mind but can't get past their personal animosities.

Kinda like here.

Trembling.

Yes, I believe you're right. The problem is that when you say, "interests of the pilots," you're only referring to the east pilots, whether you mean to or not.

Bean

 

[cleardirect]

Wow good turn out in CLT today 50 plus, King made a fool of himself by just telling everyone he does not like them (CLT Reps), Burdick an absolute idiot does not understand anything. stand by for tomorrow, company wants to ram this MOU right way down our throat, realize there should be no rush. Gary did not want us to vote on this MOU thanks to all those who put the pressure on to let the membership to vote. Caibattoni, Rowe, Manear, Thomas and those compass corruptions boys are going to sell us out I bet. Thanks to all the check airmen(some senior) that were there and fully understand what's going on.

Wow here is a news flash. East pilots not getting along with east pilots. I am stunned.

Just how is it that you have this inside knowledge of what the MOU says? How do you know the company is trying to cram it down our throat and that the CC boys are going to sell us out?

I have not seen a single bullet point on what the MOU says. I have not heard a word from the company about the MOU.

Tell us Karnack. Did someone violate their confidentiality agreement and spill the beans to you and the CLT reps? Could it be that you are one of the CLT reps stirring the pot here?

Do you really think that you spreading fear, running around screaming like a little girl the sky is falling does any good? How about you cowboy up, grow a set. The world is not coming to an end just because Cleary is not in charge anymore. Remove your lips from his six and calm down.