AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvthe9]

If that were a true statement why can't usapa get any action from the mediation board? If it is the companys fault as you said ALWAYS she has the ability to do something about it.

When she's wenrt back to DC to report all she gets is keep trying, we are being strung along. Lets go Eagles!!! I really hate New England.

 

[cleardirect]

No clear you are wrong, I have told you where I stand on the list (approx) I come from the old school always take care of the junior guys, I'm sorry it's a concept you don't get but you are not alone, again that's me not some of my classmates.

I know what you tell me. But I have no reason to believe you. Your credibility is zero.


Unless you care to out yourself and post your real name I just have no reason to believe what you say.

I guess the concept of living up to your agreements you just don't get.

 

[A320 Driver]

So!

Did anyone ask the hard questions and get the answers? Where the CLT reps held accountable or where the pilots cowed by McKee and his blind followers?

Most of the day was spent with questions, but in many cases short on answers. Congress could take lessons from these guys on how to answer a question without REALLY answering it. People brought notes full of questions. I guess it comes down to whose court you are in. I couldn't disagree more with Luv's assesment of King and Burdick. The majority was clear...this pilot group deserves the chance to decide what is right for them. NOT reps using roll call votes to block a full vote by the pilots. We saw how that works. That is exactly how we ended up on LOA93. Members of the MEC disregarded what the advisors told them and rolled the dice and here we are. Amazing part about that is two of those idiots STILL enjoy a cult following by some members of this pilot group.

SO, we are were we are. The CLT reps know how the majority of the pilots in attendance feel about it. What they will do tomorrow is anyone's guess. I think there will be more pilots in attendance tomorrow than there was today. Should be interesting.


I've never seen those reps in more of a defensive mode than they were today. What few followers they had were a VERY small minority. One pilot (not a fan) asked the F/O rep how much time was left in his term...LOL!


Driver...

 

[A320 Driver]

One more thing. To their credit, the CLT reps didn't lose their cool. I thought they carried themselves well in spite of the fact that many in attendance disagreed with them.

Fair is fair.

Driver...

 

[Pi brat]

Most of the day was spent with questions, but in many cases short on answers. Congress could take lessons from these guys on how to answer a question without REALLY answering it. People brought notes full of questions. I guess it comes down to whose court you are in. I couldn't disagree more with Luv's assesment of King and Burdick. The majority was clear...this pilot group deserves the chance to decide what is right for them. NOT reps using roll call votes to block a full vote by the pilots. We saw how that works. That is exactly how we ended up on LOA93. Members of the MEC disregarded what the advisors told them and rolled the dice and here we are. Amazing part about that is two of those idiots STILL enjoy a cult following by some members of this pilot group.

SO, we are were we are. The CLT reps know how the majority of the pilots in attendance feel about it. What they will do tomorrow is anyone's guess. I think there will be more pilots in attendance tomorrow than there was today. Should be interesting.


I've never seen those reps in more of a defensive mode than they were today. What few followers they had were a VERY small minority. One pilot (not a fan) asked the F/O rep how much time was left in his term...LOL!


Driver...

Thanks for the update. I trust your version of events. I couldn't be there today so I sent my reps emails saying that I wanted them to let the NAC do their job and THEN let's look at the pros and cons of the document. After a lengthy back and forth with one of them he told me that I was one of "3 or 4 of the usual suspects" that felt they way I did. I wonder what their perception of the meeting is.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

It sounds like the CLT reps may be a little deflated tonight. It doesn't sound to me like they quite got what they were after.

 

[A320 Driver]

Thanks for the update. I trust your version of events. I couldn't be there today so I sent my reps emails saying that I wanted them to let the NAC do their job and THEN let's look at the pros and cons of the document. After a lengthy back and forth with one of them he told me that I was one of "3 or 4 of the usual suspects" that felt they way I did. I wonder what their perception of the meeting is.

Just a guess, but it's possible they are in a "salvage what we can" mode. It was obvious they didn't receive the support they hoped for. We'll see where this goes.

This whole thing is kinda like taking a poll. The answers you get can be manipulated by the questions you ask. We saw that today. You interpret the poll to mean what you want, but that isn't what the responders intended.

Driver...

 

[Phoenix]

When have 'f&%k you and the horse you rode in on' men ever been able to negotiate more from the company.

The union capitulators that "work" with the company have always been nothing but a boon for management and a bone for fellow labor. I am sick of whiners attacking fellow pilots for mgts abuses. Mgt is always going to be coming back for handouts presented as opportunities to work together.

Mgt could give a shaw it what you think or how many times you tell them to go f themselves, as long as 51% tell mgt they are willing to work with mgt to send the bottom 49% along for the f'ing.

Giving somthing to mgt with the expectation that they will reciprocate is as stupid as supporting the "democratic protesters" in Egypt. Everyone knows exactly how it will turn out... Even so, the ALPA groupies will wake up in a strangers bed with a hangover and blame the folks who had the moral fortitude to have some standards.

 

[Beancounter]

Well, allow me to bifurcate that. Concerning the SLI, yes - it's an east centric discussion. But everything else - the possible merger, MOU, LOA93/C2004, etc. I'm referring to all pilots.

I understand that there are two factions at war with another within USAPA. The problem I'm saying though is that neither gives a flying poo about the west and therein lies the problem. By completely ignoring the concerns of such a large group they weaken the power of the union and in some instances are putting the union squarely in the cross hairs of legal recourse from the west. The company knows this and is not going to engage the union or become complicit. You can put either group in power or you can fire them all when they don't get you what you want and replace them with more like minded individuals. It's still not going to get the east what they want. I realize you're not one of the east jihadists so please don't take this as a personal attack.

Bean

Note: I've mostly been off the boards because I got volunteered to tally the cash and receipts for the local fair. Nothing like getting volunteered to put in a 35 hour week for free.

 

[traderjake]

Its hard to negotiate against the company when folks change horses in the middle of the stream by upending the NAC with give away specialists, and scramble to get a vote on anything (brought to us by the same folks who begged to give away the pension without a vote).

It's hard to negotiate when the company knows one half of the pilots do not support the Roll Call BPR.

Good luck mounting a credible strike threat with that.

 

[nic4us]

The union capitulators that "work" with the company have always been nothing but a boon for management and a bone for fellow labor. I am sick of whiners attacking fellow pilots for mgts abuses. Mgt is always going to be coming back for handouts presented as opportunities to work together.

Mgt could give a shaw it what you think or how many times you tell them to go f themselves, as long as 51% tell mgt they are willing to work with mgt to send the bottom 49% along for the f'ing.

Giving somthing to mgt with the expectation that they will reciprocate is as stupid as supporting the "democratic protesters" in Egypt. Everyone knows exactly how it will turn out... Even so, the ALPA groupies will wake up in a strangers bed with a hangover and blame the folks who had the moral fortitude to have some standards.

oh, funny.....standards??

The most destructive force for labor is those who would take from their co-woorker rather than improve their situation by legitimate means from their employer.

In our instance, that would be the reneging malcontents out to steal their co-workers positions within the company.

Now lets sse who has the moral fortitude to acknowledge that.

 

[Phoenix]

It's hard to negotiate when the company knows one half of the pilots do not support the Roll Call BPR.

Good luck mounting a credible strike threat with that.

Sure there are about 1,800 pilots that would scab to get, what is in their mind, their jobs "back".

So then, that is certainly justification to rush around the city looking for anyone who will let us say "yes" to somebody, anybody, now!

 

[Phoenix]

oh, funny.....standards??

The most destructive force for labor is those who would take from their co-woorker rather than improve their situation by legitimate means from their employer.

In our instance, that would be the reneging malcontents out to steal their co-workers positions within the company.

Now lets sse who has the moral fortitude to acknowledge that.

You are invited to my house to take whatever is yours, and don't fret yourself I believe in gun control.

 

[nic4us]

It's Asheville, with an e. I thought he we was going to Davidson. Big difference.

I guess I don't know my Ashville from a hole in the ground!!

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Ah for the good old days, when usapa was united enough for RICO suits and ID theft hysteria. Now that the APA is a clear and present danger, there is no time for that. On the one hand, that is good, on the other hand that is not so good.

I can relax about being sued and slandered for a web post(I think, I hope)but my livelihood is now tied to usapa for better or for worse. That's why I'm drinking a Budweiser.

I do want a vote on the MOU. It might not ultimately mean much, after looking at how the last several years have gone, but it's asinine for the line pilots to not have a vote on such a matter.