AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvthe9]

Your Compass Correctors surely stepped on their cranks with this one. You are the laughing stock of the industry if you take this pig.

deleted

 

[luvthe9]

You can speak to me directly MM. I don't mind. I understand completely about the aircraft being replacements. And so will we be replaced as we retire.

You explain your concept of consolidation and what part of it with regard to this merger frightens you so.

I am all ears... I'll look for your reply tonight...got stuff to do.

Driver...

He's on the 330 and could care less what happens to this place when he's gone soon.

 

[BoeingBoy]

He's on the 330 and could care less what happens to this place when he's gone soon.

Seems to be a common thought among the "just say no" crowd - keep status quo as long as possible, retire and leave the junior guys stuck with the crap that was created. That's really "taking care of the junior guys"...NOT...

Jim

 

[Crzipilot]

Well I don't think a yes or no vote really changes anything. A yes vote would give the 330 guys an instant 50k pay raise. A no vote delays what will probably happen anyways in terms of scope and work rules.

 

[Crzipilot]

On the other thought stream I had, I know someone said, APA will prevail anyways. But, if I think correctly when single carrier is determined then there is a run off.

Now say for instance, all APA votes for the other guy. Since USAPA is not party of the term sheet and the restrictions to keep the JCBA as per the term sheet. Would they have to follow that, or is that an avenue for the APA guys to get out of the agreed to terms of the Term sheet when a JCBA is negotiated?

LIke a said, probably a chance in hell of it happening, but in short.

APA gets "new" contract according to term sheet.
US votes down MOU
merger happens Single carrier established
Run off vote.
New Bargaining Agent elected
What is this new Agent obligated to, and not obligated to?

I.E. new agent is now going to have to come up with a JCBA for WEST EAST and APA. Can they start from scratch?

 

[EastUS1]

This MOU has created more confusion and consternation rather than clarification. The compny's latest ploy seems too contrived. I'm not even sure we need an MOU right now. We WILL have a seat at the table when time comes to hammer out a Transition Agreement, which unlike the MOU, is required. Then, if the company wishes to broach whole sections of our contract which are irrelevant to the narrow scope which the MOU was intended for - those sections and protections can be costed properly and negotiated without coercion.

Indeed.

 

[EastUS1]

DUI is asking us to give unlimited code share and 15-20% fleet reductions every year.

If he intends to no longer reduce mainline and replace it with a growing express fleet (like the last decade) then why did he pay his lawyers to draft an MOU that allows him to hit warp speed on that path?

Perhaps an even better question would be WHY would/should we even be considering such incredibly HUGE concessions at this time? For that matter; what's the truly reasonable basis for USAirways pilots even discussing ANY concessions at all?

Just on one point here: Min fleet is tangible. Min block hours?...Not-so-much, and easily subject to "creative" accounting. We all know from well established history exactly how much profound "respect" is shown contractual issues by team tempe. Ummm....How many greivances have been filed for their behavior again....?

 

[BLT]

One little thing I just saw, is the gamble Parker is playing. His gamble is that APA is the surviving bargaining unit. He could get AMR, have us on the side, and go through the steps of getting a new APA CBA, get his single carrier determination, and POOF, if APA is NOT the surviving Agent, then there would be a stale mate of sorts I would think. We would essentially be sitting there with three different contracts and three different pilot groups. The question is, would the new CBA be bound by the processes withing the APA term sheet for a JCBA? It seems with the wording managment may at first blush think not.

USAPA will be the bargaining agent for the new American Airlines. Mark my words! Cleary will be the president and leader who will take this group to the level it deserves!

 

[Hate2fly]

Woody Meener, Gary Hummel, and Steve Bradford own this.

John Prater and Duane Woerth will be remembered as choir boys if this MOU passes.

Additional Compass Boys
Eric Rowe
Dave Ciabbatoni
Jed Thomas
Rich Wargin
Dave Shyrack
Doug Mowery
Eric Jordan
Jamie Wiedner
Joe Stein
Pete Dugstad
Rob Streble

Did I miss anyone? Feel free to add names of the compass corruption list as you see fit.
Hate

 

[EastUS1]

Seems to be a common thought among the "just say no" crowd - keep status quo as long as possible, retire and leave the junior guys stuck with the crap that was created. That's really "taking care of the junior guys"...NOT...

Jim

Hardly. Were your typically uncharitable notions of your former coworkers at all accurate...well... even the most marginal mind would still have to note that selfish interest would require voting in any short term increases, and doing so without the slightest concern for how the agreement would effect those junior in the longer term.

Given that; I've not the slightest doubt how you would vote, were you still involved that is.

 

[Hate2fly]

I almost forgot one!

Mark King

 

[nic4us]

USAPA will be the bargaining agent for the new American Airlines. Mark my words! Cleary will be the president and leader who will take this group to the level it deserves!

I know you are being facetious..but...had usapa taken my advice 5 years ago and dropped the DOH seniority theft scheme for establishing uniform principles of seniority based on a tangible measure for all pilots...i.e. established the basis for a national seniority list and lived up to their original name of United States Airline Pilots Assco....they could have very well put up a show in this merger because the TWA guys would dig that notion as well as the Reno guys and even a lot of original AA folks.

But c'est la vie....and now we will do it the traditional way at a disadvantage to the APA and using the NIc.

Not really trying to say I told you so or point fingers....but, I am saying usapa is a next to useless tool and no matter what happens with the MOU we are going to get screwed.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

and using the NIc.

The dreaming continues.

 

[nic4us]

LIke a said, probably a chance in hell of it happening, but in short.

APA gets "new" contract according to term sheet.
US votes down MOU
merger happens Single carrier established
Run off vote.
New Bargaining Agent elected
What is this new Agent obligated to, and not obligated to?

I.E. new agent is now going to have to come up with a JCBA for WEST EAST and APA. Can they start from scratch?

The new agent can start from scratch...while they adhere to all the contracts currently in place.

Worked out well for usapa......opening every section of the contract.....not!!

 

[Claxon]

Seems to be a common thought among the "just say no" crowd - keep status quo as long as possible, retire and leave the junior guys stuck with the crap that was created. That's really "taking care of the junior guys"...NOT...

Jim

Voting away their scope is a big help too! That COC language means nothing either, that is why they want it so bad.