AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

The dreaming continues.

I suggest a reading of McCaskill/Bond and AM 3-13.

A review of the current legal status of the NIc as it pertains to LCC would not hurt either.

If you don't think that in a SLI with the APA the Nic will not be submited by an "Interested Party" your head is further up the usapa axx than a point from which we can help you.

 

[EastUS1]

Voting away their scope is a big help too! That COC language means nothing either, that is why they want it so bad.

Indeed. Who can doubt that surrendering scope would do other than provide for a truly wonderful future for those still around (at least briefly) to enjoy the rapine and pillage to follow?

 

[Claxon]

Additional Compass Boys
Eric Rowe
Dave Ciabbatoni
Jed Thomas
Rich Wargin
Dave Shyrack
Doug Mowery
Eric Jordan
Jamie Wiedner
Joe Stein
Pete Dugstad
Rob Streble

Did I miss anyone? Feel free to add names of the compass corruption list as you see fit.
Hate

This is a pretty big screw up list. How can they even begin to criticize Mike Cleary? He NEVER would have brought this POS to anyone. It would have gone right in the trash where it belongs. Rowe of all of them should have known better. You guys should have talked to the DAL group, Your deal compared to DAL pilots is unbelievable.

 

[traderjake]

Parker has said that if we were the size of DL or UA then he could pay us that way. Yet he puts in an E190 rate that is below what DL has negotiated and jetBlue has. The MOU has us wait 3 years to do a parity review, but seems to have language that Rakesh wishes he had put in his.

American is Chapter 11, Delta, United, and Jetblue are not.

 

[Claxon]

American is Chapter 11, Delta, United, and Jetblue are not.

You aren t either. Yet know throughout the industry for lowering the standards of all of us first.

 

[EastUS1]

.....no matter what happens with the MOU we are going to get screwed.

Quite possibly...but, even if so; what's the point in actively assisting any such outcome?

 

[traderjake]

You aren t either.

And yet after 5 years on the property our CBA still has us working under a Chapter 11 contract.

Nice going, Bradford and Cleary, and their supporters

 

[luvthe9]

And yet after 5 years on the property our CBA still has us working under a Chapter 11 contract.

Nice going, Bradford and Cleary, and their supporters

5 years with no give backs, well that will change, nice going Hummel, Ciabattoni and their supporters.

 

[BoeingBoy]

LIke a said, probably a chance in hell of it happening, but in short.

APA gets "new" contract according to term sheet.
US votes down MOU
merger happens Single carrier established
Run off vote.
New Bargaining Agent elected
What is this new Agent obligated to, and not obligated to?

I.E. new agent is now going to have to come up with a JCBA for WEST EAST and APA. Can they start from scratch?

Wrong conclusion because you got the timeline out of order:

1 - merger as part of POR
2 - APA files for SCS
3 - Once APA is union, a joint contract to cover all pilots

Note that this MOU doesn't affect the above. Vote yes or no and APA controls your future.

Much has been made of scope. What happened with scope for the US/HP merger? Did the east pilots end up flying all the airplanes? AA has domestic code-share with B6, AS, and HA - those would continue. AA has intn'l code-share with OW partners - those would continue. You can agree to accept scope changes to fit the possible merger status quo or accept that status quo in a transition agreement, but you won't change the code-sharing status quo that'll exist if there is a merger.

CoC is a non-issue. If Parker has his way there will be no CoC to trigger the snap-back. If he doesn't, AA will emerge stand-alone and the MOU dies.

What it amounts to is people looking for reasons to vote no and those same people trying to convince as many as possible to do the same. Fear mongering is alive and well.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Hardly. Were your typically uncharitable notions of your former coworkers at all accurate...well... even the most marginal mind would still have to note that selfish interest would require voting in any short term increases, and doing so without the slightest concern for how the agreement would effect those junior in the longer term.

Absolutely wrong. Short term interests want the status quo - no merger and separate ops. When that ends, and it will, the house of cards will come tumbling down but those only interested in themselves will be gone. It's the junior guys, who the short-timers claim to care so much about, who will be left to pay the price...

Jim

 

[Move2CLT]

CoC is a non-issue. If Parker has his way there will be no CoC to trigger the snap-back. If he doesn't, AA will emerge stand-alone and the MOU dies.

What it amounts to is people looking for reasons to vote no and those same people trying to convince as many as possible to do the same. Fear mongering is alive and well.

Jim

Someone gets it. CoC isn't worth a cent and the company doesn't need it removed. It was worthless in this merger and it's worthless in the next merger.

Would the company like it removed to prevent having to spend a dime fighting it? Yes they would. Would they give what luv wants for it? Not a chance in hell.

If you're making a decision on this based on that give-back because you want more, then you're a naive fool.

 

[Move2CLT]

5 years with no give backs, well that will change, nice going Hummel, Ciabattoni and their supporters.

LMAO.

And nice going Cleary and supporters with the injunction and getting parked - effectively neutering our pilot group.

 

[traderjake]

5 years with no give backs, well that will change, nice going Hummel, Ciabattoni and their supporters.

You believe a 38% raise is a give back and you're happy to retire on LOA 93 if it keeps your dream of rewritting the seniority list alive.

 

[EastUS1]

Absolutely wrong. Short term interests want the status quo - no merger and separate ops. When that ends, and it will, the house of cards will come tumbling down but those only interested in themselves will be gone. It's the junior guys, who the short-timers claim to care so much about, who will be left to pay the price...

Jim

"Absolutely wrong." ? You certainly are. Given that my time left on compus is nearing it's end; my short term, purely selfish intersts would be best served simply voting in anything that even briefly provides the slightest improvements. The junior guys would indeed be left to pay the price.

"Much has been made of scope." Which, for whatever odd reasons, you dismiss entirely...and management seems interested in doing the same. If coc is entirely worthless; why does management seek it's removal at all? I suppose the reasonable question is why surrender anything at all, especially without decent compensation?

"Fear mongering is alive and well."..? Umm...Ok...certainly...if you say so of course 😉 In all fairness, perhaps you should present your positive arguments as to why you feel this MOU should be embraced instantly, and apparently without any questioning or debate?

 

[Res Judicata]

5 years with no give backs, well that will change, nice going Hummel, Ciabattoni and their supporters.

You idiots handed Parker a Billion dollars in lost wages alone on a silver platter 5 years ago. I'm counting the days to Sept. 21 to register my YES vote.