AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Crzipilot]

Jim,

I believe Parker has gone on record as saying it would be less expensive and easier for AMR to acquire LCC in Bk. In which case, by removal of the COC it makes his life easier.

Does he need it removed, obviously not, but he has said it would be cheaper. Can't remember where I saw it though.... Maybe a crew news?

 

[EastUS1]

...which makes you a fool...

Jim

A fine accolade I'll cheerfully not only accept but indeed assign to myself should the day ever come when, after retiring, that I find myself bereft of any purpose in life other than infesting chat threads pertaining to my previous employment. 😉

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim,

the theoritical situation i was talking about was, in the Single Carrier status, there is a run off election to determine who is going to be the bargaining unit. What would happen to all of this if neither USAPA or APA, (or just NOT APA) becomes the bargaining agent. Is the new agent tied to terms of the Term sheet. A little paragraph in there seems to think management doesn't think it does.

As someone said earlier, it may be that APA will be "appointed" union based on the numbers - I haven't looked it up but believe that there has to be 35% of the members in favor of a different union to have an election. As you said earlier, one can construct situations where APA wouldn't be the union, but for the MOU it's probably best to stick to the likely outcome and that's APA being the representative of all the pilots.

If by "the term sheet" you mean the abrogated APA contract, whatever the union is doesn't matter - the term sheet becomes the amended APA contract the instant AA puts it in place. Even without a merger the union (presumably still APA) can then try to negotiate changes to the amended contract for the AA pilots but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a new contract.

If by "the term sheet" you mean a MOU between Parker/APA or Parker/USAPA, I'd guess that it would be enforcable but both are just outlines for a process, not contracts or even term sheets. As far as I know, a term sheet is still to be negotiated by Parker/APA, which may very well take the form of a transition agreement which could go into effect when APA becomes the representative of all the pilots.

Jim

 

[EastUS1]

Jim,

I believe Parker has gone on record as saying it would be less expensive and easier for AMR to acquire LCC in Bk. In which case, by removal of the COC it makes his life easier.

Does he need it removed, obviously not, but he has said it would be cheaper.

Yep.

 

[Move2CLT]

So...it "isn't worth a cent" yet the company would "like it removed to prevent having to spend a dime fighting it?" I see. That makes perfect sense 😉

When you're talking relative money, no its not.

Just like this MOU. It's only worth a small amount to the company because they don't need it. But they're will to pony up the relatively small amount to smooth the path to merger.

That make sense?

 

[Move2CLT]

This is the bottom line. They can blame Cleary all day. The truth is Franke Air had the AWA wages down for years, and used them to destroy the good airlines. You can thank AWA and their pilots for your pension loss. Their disgusting model became the norm after their pilots were used world wide to destroy the piloting profession. This AA mess is the final Franke impact. The last to have a pension. Now the Franke minions will try to lever up a deal for their idiot plans. Unbelievable. I would vote no to Franke and Parker. You really have no choice. To say yes to their plans is surrender. Your scope is the prize, and they want it for a big reason. Make them take it.

News flash boo boo. You guys will be the ones to vote this in.

And as for depressing our industry wages, you have no room to lecture. You were tops for a couple of months on a fluke. Then you lead and held the race to the bottom.

You guys are truly the poster children for scum.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim,

I believe Parker has gone on record as saying it would be less expensive and easier for AMR to acquire LCC in Bk. In which case, by removal of the COC it makes his life easier.

Does he need it removed, obviously not, but he has said it would be cheaper. Can't remember where I saw it though.... Maybe a crew news?

That's what has been reported by the NAC, I believe.

First, there won't be a merger while AA is in bankruptcy. It'll be part of the POR (like US/HP) or AMR will emerge stand-alone. I would give 100-1 odds on that.

Plus Parker is giving something for the CoC and scope - call it 5000 US pilots who would go to higher pay immediately upon a merger plus a signing bonus if there's a merger, plus pay protection and a few other things. Per pilot it may sound cheap but for the US pilot group it's hundreds of million of dollars.

Jim

 

[EastUS1]

It's only worth a small amount to the company because they don't need it.

That make sense?

No. That actually makes NO sense whatsoever. It either has value or does not. Whether they "need" it or not...they certainly want it gone. In any case; what's the "small amount" that's truly appropriate compensation for the total elimination of it? I'd suggest such questions are not at all unreasonable.

Nevermind. I see you've covered all aspects of responsible reflection, reasoned debate and inquiry via your "You guys are truly the poster children for scum" 😉 Well...rest assured that you've certainly gained my vote.

Enough of this little sandbox for now.

 

[Move2CLT]

Ask the poor 190 F/O s about flying with Captain Garland. He is a tool of the highest order, nobody listens to him. Quoting him is akin to quoting yourself or Nic4us, nobody listens.

Said luv.

LMAO. Oh the irony.

 

[Move2CLT]

No. That actually makes NO sense whatsoever.

I'll draw pictures for you next time. You've become a bit more mentally stunted since you last posted.

 

[Crzipilot]

When you're talking relative money, no its not.

Just like this MOU. It's only worth a small amount to the company because they don't need it. But they're will to pony up the relatively small amount to smooth the path to merger.

That make sense?

My issue is Parker has stated it would be cheaper.....So how much cheaper.....and how much are we shortchanged. 40 mill I would guess is a 1/10th of what he saves

 

[EastUS1]

I'll draw pictures for you next time.

A fine idea. In the interests of your personal safety; I'd gently suggest employing only worn, well rounded crayons and avoiding scissors or any tools with sharp edges...although avoiding any actual points has never been a problem for you.

 

[BLT]

Then have it moved out of the MOU. You idiots know it is issue one, and Parker wants it. That is why I would vote NO, just for that reason alone. It is your ticket to $$$ This POS will be American, and that is change of control.

COC is like a warm snuggly blankie. I won't let anyone have it! Its mine! Not even for a big huge raise and a seat at the table. I'd rather get paid like a regional pilot than give up my warm snuggy! COC is worth at least 10 billion $!!! You idiots don't know anything!!! Parker will give away his children for COC. We now have the leverage to make the company meet our outrageous demands!!! But that still won't be enough to get my COC. I know it will be worthless after we merge and they find away around it, but at least I can say I voted no and lost out on hundreds of thousands in earnings. Only nerds vote yes. Its cool to vote no. Don't be a nerd. I won't let you down COC. Flat out no!!!!!

 

[Move2CLT]

A fine idea. In the interests of your personal safety; I'd gently suggest employing only worn, well rounded crayons and avoiding scissors or any tools with sharp edges. Avoiding any actual points has never been a problem for you.

The points are there East.

In your old age and high state of bitterness, you just fail to see them or purposefully ignore them.

Seems like other easties caught on. Maybe you can get Claxon to help you.

 

[EastUS1]

Move2CLT: I'll draw pictures for you next time.

The points are there East.

I must respectfully refuse further discourse with anyone who offers to produce descriptive artwork, an offer I accepted, and subsequently proves themself bereft of any shred of integrity or honor by failing to make good on that contract. 😉