AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

Possibly right, but for the wrong reason (I see parity as more a bargaining chip in JCBA/seniority negotiations). Note that even in your scenerio parity wouldn't come because the US pilots (and particularly east pilots) deserve it but because APA saw a benefit to giving it - each side gains something. It seems that a certain group makes fun of Parker's "It's the right thing to do" in reference to a JCBA yet expect Parker to do the "right" thing in respect to pay.

Jim

Agree.

On a completely different note...the first time I heard Parker say this, was when he was asked why AWA was buying AAA at the time, and not waiting for the chapter 7 fire sale...his response included stuff about being out bid etc...

But the bottom line was it was saving 30,000 jobs and was "the right thing to do".

 

[nic4us]

Nic, Nic, Nic,

, and love notes to the BPR.

Great idea!!

Now all I got to do is figure out how to avoid the RICO complaint.

 

[traderjake]

What merger? Have you flown a jet with AW on the end of the reg?

Where is the America West Operating Certificate?

I always thought you were mentally challenged.

Now it's comfirmed.

 

[nic4us]

Good. They can take a flying f&@$k at a rolling donut.

If ustupid had half a gonad......(okay, I am fantasizing).....they would go to the NMB with the Nic tommorrow...demand re-engaging negotiations or release to self help.

Tell the company...I got your injunction right here!!!

 

[luvthe9]

Agree.

On a completely different note...the first time I heard Parker say this, was when he was asked why AWA was buying AAA at the time, and not waiting for the chapter 7 fire sale...his response included stuff about being out bid etc...

But the bottom line was it was saving 30,000 jobs and was "the right thing to do".

Your an idiot, Doug "the right thing to do" now that's rich.

 

[luvthe9]

Of course it is!!

Because it employs a POS pilot group .

Your right, so how do we get rid of this west scum?

 

[EastUS1]

But the bottom line was it was saving 30,000 jobs and was "the right thing to do".

I've no doubt that was his foremost, no, certainly his only concern, and without possible doubt, the merger was made purely as an act of the utmost, selfless philanthropy, to nobly "save jobs" and because it was "the right thing to do" Thanks for once again posting the joke of the day. 😉

Seriously; I'm going to have to put some old dojo matting around my chair. If you keep this stuff up; it's just a matter of time before I laugh myself out of it. 😉

 

[nic4us]

i've no doubt that was his foremost, no, certainly only concern, and, without doubt, and the merger done purely because it was "the right thing to do" Thanks again for forwading the joke of the day. 😉

I am just saying it is a line that has been used before.

Want some more of what to expect from this management team...oh...nevermind..for a minute there I thought I was talking to somebody who might know enough to at least know he doesn't know squat.

 

[nic4us]

Your right, so how do we get rid of this west scum?

Easy answere.....

Stay the course......MM is going to get his fragmentation.....just not quite how he expected it to play out.

Hint...who has 60+ aging aircraft and 600 retirements over the next 45 months?

Another clue....it is not the east.

 

[luvthe9]

I am just saying it is a line that has been used before.

Problem is you westies believe that crap.

 

[EastUS1]

So the APA gets us parity in the TA...then the APA cleans house in the seniority integration....exhibit A....they brought the LCC pilots up to their contract, and therefore the LCC pilots get a much diminished position on an integrated SL.

Wouldn't such an outcome be fully proper within the long-established, core philosophy of ardent nicsters? Isn't the above perfectly representative of the BS basis for the glorious nic "award"? So....What's your problem?

 

[EastUS1]

Want some more of what to expect from this management team...oh...nevermind..for a minute there I thought I was talking to somebody who might know enough to at least know he doesn't know squat.

Funny you should, with typical contempt and arrogance, advance such a foolish notion. I'll just leave you with a far better man who's previously addressed such issues...a little fellow by the name of Socrates: "I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing. "

As for: "Want some more of what to expect from this management team.."...? I've no doubts whatsoever there. I expect them to behave as the creatures they've always shown themselves to be. Mountains of empircally demonstrated and well observed behavioral data can't reasonably be ignored. What's your point?

 

[luvn737s]

Huh?...I mean WHAT!!!???

Maybe you need a nanny to read this to you. USAPA sent in straw men negotiators with no authority to close a deal. The BPR have never been ones to be trusted especially since losing their icon Cleary.

Yes I know it's hard for you to swallow, but your BPR just screwed the pooch on this and subsequent "negotiations". Please wake up and try to accept reality. I know you can't accept responsibility for your actions, and you try to solicit rounds of applause for your verbose ramblings (sorry no takers) but faking surprise at what many confidently accept as fact just makes you look pitiful.

You backed Tokyo Rose on this one and got burned. Try to be a man and admit it, or act like a truculent schoolboy and pretend otherswise.

 

[Metroyet]

If one ever wondered why the East pilots are at the bottom of the barrel, bottom of the sewer, (with a lisp) in terms of wages and working conditions....simply reference above. You guys are so filled with rage, hate and self loathing that you can't see what is plainly obvious. You have no leverage. This isn't a TA and not at all the point in time to attempt to recover to the year 1985. This MOU is what I would consider a base hit. A single for sure, maybe steal second if your lucky. These East guys always see it as bottom of the ninth, bases loaded, one out to go, game 7 of the World Series, down by one, swing for the fence and ride off into history on the shoulders of glory. IOW, delusional.

This should be a no brainier yes vote. For the first time since the Big Emotional Breakdown after the nic came out and they took their ball and went home....SEVEN YEARS AGO, the East pilots have a crystal clear choice between SOMETHING or NOTHING and the usual suspects don't want SOMETHING they demand EVERYTHING which, once again, will get them NOTHING...beyond nothing actually the continued staggering cost of LOA93 3 ADDITIONAL years not at parity with UAL/DAL...which could be hundreds of millions of dollars more LOST. Don't even mention what the APA is going to attempt to do before they're legally obligated to represent you. They're going to do what they can to hang you by your feet and gut you like a proverbial fish first. All the while, the AFO's got their NO vote on this MOU and the ENTIRE pilot group stands on the side lines and watches the carnage HELPLESS. Helpless and pouting they didn't get the grand slam win on the no brainier MOU vote.

I've spewed my fair share of vitriol on this board over the years, but all that aside, (for now🙂) let me offer my humble advise. DON'T BE STUPID....AGAIN. This MOU isn't the magic Delorean that will sweep you back to the year 1985. It is however the only measurable win USAPA may EVER have a chance to deliver. Don't fk it up.

I don't think I've ever quoted myself in a post but this one bears repeating....since the MOU and a ton of money just blew up in USTUPIDs face...again. As per usual, well played Idiots.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

From the latest BPR update:
The Weeks Ahead
We now have anywhere between 60 – 90 days before we will know how any merger deal will be structured. Without knowing the outcome of AMR's and US Airways' confidential negotiations, we cannot imagine that signing on to the MOU – as it stands today – would be advisable. Paragraph 19 of the MOU states that the APA needs to agree with 10 of the other paragraphs and, should they not reach a consensus with both US Airways management and USAPA, we may end up giving away items like minimum fleet and block hour protections (read scope) and conceivably receive nothing in return. Simply put, right now, the MOU is an incomplete document whose formation was interrupted (perhaps intentionally?) by AMR's request to US Airways Management and their subsequent agreement to "cease union negotiations."

I guess they just make this stuff up. If you believe Parker and Kirby have been in the dark as to the finances of AMR Corp. over the last 2 years, I have some swampland to sell you all.

The logical analysis is they will come out of AMR HQ, white smoke billowing, sometime between now and late December, as soon as mere weeks from now (to give the appearance of due diligence.) In fact, leave no doubt, the ONLY thing being worked out now is who runs this thing and how much the other guys get paid on exit. Or course, the news could be no merger. Then MOU has no meaning. I have some more swampland for you all to buy.

Having not seen the MOU, the CLT reps had a meeting to tell you to vote NO.

Having not seen the MOU the BPR voted to send out "anything" to the pilots.

THEN:

NAC and Wilder brief the BPR, and all give thumbs up. Wilder, Merger Counsel, and General Counsel (all elected by the BPR….two hired by Cleary) say send it out yesterday, and approve it. Time is critical. 120 years of law between them all. No doubt they are warning the BPR.
Wilder says "this is it, all there is." You will hurt my position in the JNC process if you send me back. More to get there, just don't waste capital now.

BPR sends it out, BPR says vote NO. BPR tells Wilder to go back for more.

Kirby gives us the finger.

BPR now threatens to "pull" the vote with "as it stands language. "To send the MOU out for Membership Ratification and as it stands today, voting will commence on or around September 21st."
As it stands today? They stupidly forced themselves to send out "anything" before they saw it (thanks CLT reps!) now have remorse? They are not in touch; this thing will pass as is by over 75%

If they screw this up, here is the conversation a Group II C/O has with his Rep after the Merger is announced:

Do I get the 50K raise?
No
Do I get the 10K bonus"
No
Do I have 5:1widebody downsize protection with APA and the termsheet?
No
Do I have 2:1 narrowbody downsize protection with APA and the termsheet?
No
Can AMR put all the 190s on our side?
Yes
Is the NIC actually dead now with M/B language in the MOU?
No, the MOU is gone, it lives.
Do we have M/B leverage at the table with our "ratios?"
No, the MOU is gone
Can we now cash in our COC and code share, it's worth a lot?
Sure, big merger coming up with Virgin, no wait, Alaska, uh..not sure.
Did you show Parker who was boss, and let him know what you think?
I sure did!
So what is your plan going forward?
Sound of crickets.
Greeter

The "FUD KING" LMFAO! IT passed alright, like gas out you a##!