AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Piedmont1984]

Ya gotta love the hard-core easties. Going from "Hummel better let us vote on the MOU" to "How dare they put this out for a vote" almost overnight...

Of course, the same group was absolutely sure that there'd be a better offer coming. Now even the MOU is off the table. Such is life in la-la land. The next disappointment is coming - "there's no reason not to have parity on day one". They scoff at the idea of Parker and "charity" but expect just that.

Jim

Expecting pay parity is not charity, even though it rhymes.

 

[EastUS1]

Spoken like a true ALPO scum, you are worse than meddling mother-in-law who has no business here and no purpose in life. Here's an idea go volunteer Gastonia Civil Air Patrol those poor kids will think you're the hero you actually think you are.

Bad idea! I wouldn't want the unfortunate youths afflicted with tales of how many "military cockpits" he's "strappen into"....They might mistake his stories for those of an actual USAF pilot, and that'd be a piss-poor basis upon which to form any proper impressions of the USAF.

 

[Phoenix]

Well with the MOU gone I bet now comes the blame game and the try to divide and conquer routine we are all so familiar with.

After all these years DUI starves the natives in a cage and starts to dangle a little red meat in front of them, then snatches it away and will see what kind of fights he can stir up with a hot poker through the bars of our cage. And as you suggest, he will come back at an opportune time to offer even worse terms. Who will break ranks and turn on fellow pilots? The guy dangling red meat and sticking the cattle prod on our arse needs to be the target.

 

[Graceson]

Ya gotta love the hard-core easties. Going from "Hummel better let us vote on the MOU" to "How dare they put this out for a vote" almost overnight...

Jim

I think this came from two sets of choices:

The first event was the BPR signing an agreement, unseen by the voting MIGS.
This prompted the negative response you describe.

The second event was voting on an inadequate MOU, which even the company agreed to address.

Comment edited ... fingers don't fit on the Droid

 

[im back..!!]

Expecting pay parity is not charity, even though it rhymes.

--------------------------
I believe we will only achieve pay parity now, when we havw a JCBA. If I was a current APA pilot I would offer a JCBA when the Usapa pilots agree to a seniority integration that ensures no lingering DFR or harm to my furloughed. IE: the NIC stapled to the bottom of the APA list.
Mcaskill-Bond allows anything agreed to between the unions to be considered "fair and equitable" as long as they agree to it. So, how much longer are the Usapa pilots willing to wait for a raise, hmm. 5yrs and counting....

 

[BoeingBoy]

Spoken like a true ALPO scum, you are worse than meddling mother-in-law who has no business here and no purpose in life. Here's an idea go volunteer over at the Gastonia Civil Air Patrol those poor kids will think you're the hero you actually think you are.

Hit a nerve didn't I. How does it feel never being right???

Jim

 

[luvthe9]

Hit a nerve didn't I. How does it feel never being right???

Jim

Not at all, we just feel sorry you have no life.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Expecting pay parity is not charity, even though it rhymes.

Wrong - expecting it to be given for no reason other than "We deserve it" is expecting charity - getting something while giving nothing in return. Parker isn't the pastor of your church giving aid to those who deserve it, he's a hard-nosed businessman doing what's best for the company regardless of how it might affect you. You wouldn't even give him a MOU so why would he give you pay parity until forced to by a JCBA???

Jim

 

[traderjake]

Expecting pay parity is not charity, even though it rhymes.

How did that work out with the America West merger?

Maybe it takes more than just expecting it.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I think this came from two sets of choices:

The first event was the BPR signing an agreement, unseen by the voting MIGS.
This prompted the negative response you describe.

The second event was voting on an inadequate MOU, which even the company agreed to address.

Comment edited ... fingers don't fit on the Droid

Don't forget the link between the two - demanding a vote before even knowing what was in the MOU (because Hummel and the "Compass Corruption" boys negotiated it) then demanding improvements (because Hummel and the "Compass Corruption boys negotiated it). In other words, whatever Hummel and the "Compass Corruption" gang did was wrong - don't get a MOU and they're scum, get a MOU and they're scum, pass a MOU without a vote and they're scum, put a MOU out for a vote and they're scum. Starting to see the common thread...

Jim

 

[nic4us]

Quickly to mind would be the process of recall from furlough, J4J held grievance, ...there's two.

Since the West had no furloughs, I am not familiar with this....

I do recall an issue where furloughs were recalled to group II then displaced to the e190.

Are you saying east furloughees were not recalled according to their contract, LOA93, or the TA language?

As for the J4J stuff, that is completely beyond my sphere of reference...I would suspect that there was a hold clause, just as there is a hold clause for West guys going east now...I believe it is 18 months.

I any event...you came up with something that actually answered the question...unlike the dodgers who the question was directed toward.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Wrong - expecting it to be given for no reason other than "We deserve it" is expecting charity - getting something while giving nothing in return. Parker isn't the pastor of your church giving aid to those who deserve it, he's a hard-nosed businessman doing what's best for the company regardless of how it might affect you. You wouldn't even give him a MOU so why would he give you pay parity until forced to by a JCBA???

Jim

So according to you, expecting what you deserve is the same as expecting charity. So my paycheck is nothing more than charity. Okay, I'll just leave it there.

What did Parker offer for CoC and the elimination of min fleet?

Finally, I never had the opportunity to give him an MOU, since he withdrew the document. Which means he wants to avoid the perception of labor uncertainty, which means it would be in his interest and the company's to not withhold pay parity.

 

[Piedmont1984]

How did that work out with the America West merger?

Maybe it takes more than just expecting it.

Different set of dynamics at work this time around.

 

[BoeingBoy]

So according to you, expecting what you deserve is the same as expecting charity. So my paycheck is nothing more than charity. Okay, I'll just leave it there.

Not at all. You work under a contract between the company and the union, what you "deserve" doesn't enter the picture anywhere. You get what you negotiate, no more and no less.

Expecting more because you think you deserve it is asking for charity. Parter offered you parity on day one as part of the MOU, but you said the price was too high. Yet you want the parity on day 1 anyway - charity or getting something without giving anything in return.

Jim

 

[Phoenix]

Well with the MOU gone I bet now comes the blame game and the try to divide and conquer strategy routine we are all so familiar with.

Rogger that. By withdrawing the MOU, the company is attempting to separate the membership from the BPR, by blaming the BPR for preventing the pilots from having a vote.

Fact is the BPR could pass out the MOU for a vote with additional explanation that DUI is trying to separate the BPR from the members by denying them an MOU. Obviously DUI was concerned the members would stand with the BPR and reject the MOU. Let's pass it out and vote it down owerwhelmingly to show DUI he was right.