AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

When Judge Silver makes her decision it will be interesting to see the activity on the boards. Hyperbole will reign supreme from you fellas, I am "supremely confident".

Ah...yeah...sure....if you say so. For myself, as I'd noted prior to the Wake joke and later the 9th; whatever happens in any court...life goes on, and it's just another day to enjoy. Take a breath and relax a bit. Whatever happens (and none can now know what that will be) will hardly constitute any grand shifting of the earth's axis. 😉

 

[EastUS1]

You are absolutely full of it...

Calling a 40 year old methodology that is now federal law "the latest fashion statement".

Hmm...I'd be interested to see where you get this latest 40 year old fantasy from? The vast majority of merger activity I've personally seen went DOH.

Calling that which is now federal law "the latest fashion statement" merely acknowledges the reality of the society and world we live in. We no longer burn "witches", although some societies still legally murder supposed witches. Overt slavery has gone out of legal fashion, at least in the USA. Neverending litigation, and too often purely whimsical change are the only constants within the legal theater. Roe vs Wade is even contended against routinely. The second amendment is invariably under attack/etc. For that matter; completely insane morons/"lawmakers" now have us living through the second version of Prohibition (which worked so well to grow the Mafia/organized crime the first time around!) aka: the "war on drugs", as if government is ever going to successfully control what substances people put into their own bodies! Seriously; to hold that all laws are somehow above insult would be an insult to human reasoning it's self! Laws are indeed largely an issue of contemporary, societal fashion. Personal morals need not be. What's your point? 😉

 

[Claxon]

Retard has another typing seizure.

YAWN.

Yawn, it was pathetically funny watching your Leonidas attempts in the Wake Circus. The most hilarious part was when Leonidas actually believed the ruling would stand. In the shadows stood Silver. She knows what she has to do. She may not want to, but she knows there is no other way. Your Nicolau is on borrowed time. Enjoy the fantasy a few more months.

 

[EastUS1]

So he lasted twice as long as anyone else who held that position, and he was fired because he wouldn't trade his integrity.....

The incredible depths into which you've invested in this self-ascribed "integrity" fantasy seems to overpower even the ability to simply read anything at face value! Show us all where the baseball issue even referenced ANY moral notions?...much less, offered any insult or support for any or no supposed "integrity"?

Seriously; where do you guys make this stuff up from? Does the accumulated dust on the nic documents, having sat in contact for awhile, now find it's self magically imbued with "integrity" as well? I swear...this BS is damm near pathological....or is actually.....

 

[Claxon]

The incredible depths into which you've invested in this self-ascribed "integrity" fantasy seems to overpower even the ability to simply read anything at face value! Show us all where the baseball issue even referenced ANY moral notions?...much less, offered any insult or support for any or no supposed "integrity"?

Seriously; where do you guys make this stuff up from? Does the accumulated dust on the nic documents, having sat in contact for awhile, now find it's self magically imbued with "integrity" as well? I swear...this BS is damm near pathological....or is actually.....

Nicolau was long past competent decisions. He really screwed up the last one. It is an outlier, cast it aside.

 

[luvn737s]

Seriously; where do you guys make this stuff up from? Does the accumulated dust on the nic documents, having sat in contact for awhile, now find it's self magically imbued with "integrity" as well? I swear...this BS is damm near pathological....or is actually.....

Go ask your mom what integrity is, and why you apparently were raised with such disdain for it.

 

[CallawayGolf]

The incredible depths into which you've invested in this self-ascribed "integrity" fantasy seems to overpower even the ability to simply read anything at face value! Show us all where the baseball issue even referenced ANY moral notions?...much less, offered any insult or support for any or no supposed "integrity"?

Seriously; where do you guys make this stuff up from? Does the accumulated dust on the nic documents, having sat in contact for awhile, now find it's self magically imbued with "integrity" as well? I swear...this BS is damm near pathological....or is actually.....

It's not hard to extrapolate that Nicolau wasn't going to be unduly influenced in his arbitration decisions as both sides (Baseball owners and the player's union) lost big cases during his tenure. The owners lost collusion cases and paid hundreds of millions of dollars to settle free agency issues. They also lost on player drug use matters which might make one think that Nicolau was a friend of the players. However the player's union lost several cases related to management's authority to determine the number of players on the roster and the negotiation of options contracts. In the the player's union supported the decision to terminate him despite have won many cases during his time in that position. So if he wasn't a pawn or a sellout to one side or the other, then what else do you suppose he used to make his decisions other than the integrity of doing what he thought was right, even under extreme pressure from one or both groups?

here's some excerpts left off of MM's citations in this article:

"It was not a reaction to any specific decisions," Westhoff said yesterday. "We just felt it was time to move on."
Rob Manfred, the owners' lead labor negotiator, said, "We were at the point in our relationship where we thought it was good to have someone with a fresh eye."
Westhoff, who in his letter to Nicolau referred to the arbitrator's "outstanding service to baseball," said he did not view the move as a negative step in the labor area. But Gene Orza, the union's associate general counsel, said: "How it serves their professed interest in labor peace is something only they can answer. George Nicolau didn't always agree with me either, but it's clear to me that he was a great arbitrator before the clubs fired him and he'll continue to be a great arbitrator after they've fired him."

 

[luvn737s]

I could only hope to be as "in touch" as he is when I reach his distinguished age.

Remember Age=Good if you're a fat untalentented airline pilot that likes to hang out on internet chat boards and make foolish wagers and dogfight dares, but Age=bad if you are a respected member of your profession. Unless of course you are an F/O who opposed raising the retirement age, in which case Age=bad as well (but you can't say that out loud for fear of losing the promised* support of those captains in fighting the Nic).

*The folks who vote YES, but tell "their F/O's" they "wouldn't think of selling them out".

 

[nevergiveup]

Remember Age=Good if you're a fat untalentented airline pilot that likes to hang out on internet chat boards and make foolish wagers and dogfight dares, but Age=bad if you are a respected member of your profession. Unless of course you are an F/O who opposed raising the retirement age, in which case Age=bad as well (but you can't say that out loud for fear of losing the promised* support of those captains in fighting the Nic).

*The folks who vote YES, but tell "their F/O's" they "wouldn't think of selling them out".

you gotta love him!

 

[fifidriver]

*The folks who vote YES, but tell "their F/O's" they "wouldn't think of selling them out".

I had a similar experience recently, although it actually went a bit beyond that.

I was required to deadhead on East metal as part of my trip. I watched the flt crew board and nodded at the Captain, who came back up the jetway a few minutes later. Apparently, the flt was completely booked, and the FO was trying to bring his wife on the overnight with him. I rode in the jumpseat with them to MSP and his wife got on the flight. The Captain, who negotiated this agreement, has either a strange sense of humor or is forgetful enough to neglect to inform his FO that his guest was a West pilot. I suspect the former. About 45 minutes into the flt, the FO asked where I was based. I thought the question was odd. The stunned look on his face was absolutely priceless when I told him PHX. You just had to be there!
All in all, we had a nice chat. We talked about AA and the future. Maybe the FO was just sucking up to the CA, or maybe it was just a case of both of them giving me their own version of; "Well, bless your heart...", but the seeming consensus reached before we started down was, (Captain's words) "...that the Nic was probably like a colonoscopy or a prostate exam. Nobody likes having something like that shoved up their "6", but in the end, (pun intended), you'll feel a whole lot better about yourself and you'll make your wife really happy..." Or words to that effect.

Thanks guys!!! It was entertaining and enlightening, even though it didn't make my FO all that happy. Keep the greasy side down.

Oh... I almost forgot. If given the chance to vote, they both said, in no uncertain terms, that they would vote "Yes".

 

[BoeingBoy]

Take a breath and relax a bit. Whatever happens (and none can now know what that will be) will hardly constitute any grand shifting of the earth's axis. 😉

Perhaps you should follow your own advice...you spend a lot of time here for someone that tells others to "take a breath and relax a bit"

Jim

 

[Move2CLT]

Oh... I almost forgot. If given the chance to vote, they both said, in no uncertain terms, that they would vote "Yes".

As would most of the easties on this board.

 

[Move2CLT]

Yawn, it was pathetically funny watching your Leonidas attempts in the Wake Circus. The most hilarious part was when Leonidas actually believed the ruling would stand. In the shadows stood Silver. She knows what she has to do. She may not want to, but she knows there is no other way. Your Nicolau is on borrowed time. Enjoy the fantasy a few more months.

Damn you're an idiot.

 

[Claxon]

Go ask your mom what integrity is, and why you apparently were raised with such disdain for it.

Ask your mom about integrity, and when you get something you never earned, or were given in error, you should refuse. You got your windfall, were warned about it at your weekend retreat. Then you continued stuffing the windfall in your pocket. You got caught, and now the situation is about to be rectified by the judge. Your own president Scott Kirby told you that you would fail when you tried to cash your lottery ticket. He is absolutely correct. Fail you will.

 

[luvthe9]

Ask your mom about integrity, and when you get something you never earned, or were given in error, you should refuse. You got your windfall, were warned about it at your weekend retreat. Then you continued stuffing the windfall in your pocket. You got caught, and now the situation is about to be rectified by the judge. Your own president Scott Kirby told you that you would fail when you tried to cash your lottery ticket. He is absolutely correct. Fail you will.

They will find out soon enough they wasted all those years.