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kubotapilot

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I read through several of the "west" ASAP type reports last week in a safety newsletter and was very surprised.

The west operation reads like some of the commuters that operated twenty years ago ! :down:

There was one incident where the guys were trying to do a night visual in ABQ and went around several times after lining up for the wrong runway and finally landing in an Airbus totally unstabilized at a high terrain airport :shock: !!!

This corresponds to several conversations I have had with check airmen observing / JSing on cactus flights.

What scares me the most is when you combine this type of cowboy flying with the seniority / operational meltdown and the traditional high risk period following a merger ... :shock: :shock: :shock:



Good luck to us all
 
Although we've ALL had our unstable approaches (I've read the same from east guys flying the river visual into DCA) I have never flown with anyone who "cowboys" with the airplane. Every west pilot who I've had the pleasure to fly with has been a supurb aviator and excellent decision maker.
 
Maybe the fact that we CAN admit to making mistakes and learn from it, is actually a strength. Or maybe you think that we're not "real aviators" until we start killing passengers on a regular basis.

A little something I found on another discussion board:

http://www.airsafe.com/airline.htm

Fatal Events and Fatal Event Rates of Airlines in the United States and Canada Since 1970

The following values for each airline includes the number of fatal events since 1970, the Full Loss Equivalent (FLE*) for each airline, the year of the most recent fatal event, the number of flights since 1970, and an estimate of the fatal event rate per million flights. Because the number of flights for each airline is an estimate, the fatal event rate is also an estimate. Unless otherwise stated, the number of fatal events is current as of the revision date at the bottom of the page, but the number of flights is the estimate through the end of 2005


United States and Canada

Airline Rate Flights FLE* Events Last
Air Canada+ 0.33 4.75M 1.58 3 1983
AirTran (ValuJet) 0.94 1.06M 1.00 1 1996
Alaska Airlines 0.33 6.13M 2.02 3 2000
Aloha Airlines 0.56 1.77M 1.00 1 1989
America West Airlines 0.00 3.53M 0.00 0 -
American Airlines** 0.40 25.08M 10.08 13 2004]
American Trans Air 0.00 0.69M 0.00 0 -
Continental Airlines** 0.14 10.39M 1.47 5 1997
Delta Air Lines** 0.17 24.8M 4.24 7 2006
Hawaiian Airlines 0.00 0.66M 0.00 0 -
JetBlue Airlines 0.00 0.35M 0.00 0 -
Midwest Express 1.92 0.52M 1.00 1 1985
Northwest Airlines** 0.21 12.51M 2.61 4 1993
Southwest Airlines 0.00 15.26M 0.00 0 -
United Airlines** 0.31 21.9M 6.69 11 2001(2)
US Airways** 0.28 17.63M 4.97 9 2003



US Airways:

http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/usair.htm
The following events are those involving at least one passenger death where the aircraft flight had a direct or indirect role. Excluded would be events where the only passengers killed were stowaways, hijackers, or saboteurs.
Note: In 1979, Allegheny Airlines changed its name to USAir and in 1997, USAir changed its name to US Airways.

1. 7 June 1971; Allegheny Airlines Convair 580; New Haven, CT: The aircraft crashed about 3/8 of a mile (600 m) short of the runway threshold during landing in reduced visibility. Two of the three crew members and 26 of the 28 passengers were killed.

2. 12 February 1979; Allegheny Airlines Mohawk 299; Clarksburg, VA: The aircraft crashed during takeoff due to snow on the wings. One of the three crew members and one of the 22 passengers were killed.

3. 20 September 1989; USAir 737-400; La Guardia Airport, New York: The crew incorrectly trimmed the rudder for takeoff and were forced to abort the takeoff. The aircraft overran the runway and was partially submerged in water. Two of the 55 passengers were killed.

4. 1 February 1991; USAir 737-300; Los Angeles, CA: The USAir flight was cleared to land on a runway which also had a Skywest Metro III on the runway awaiting takeoff. The aircraft collided and burst into flames. Two of the six crew members and 20 of the 83 passengers on the USAir jet were killed. All 10 passengers and two crew members on the Metro III were killed.

5. 3 January 1992; USAir Express (Commutair) Beech 1900; Gabriel, NY: The aircraft hit high ground on approach 3.9 miles (6.2 km) from the runway at about 1600 feet (490 meters) above minimum altitude at that point. The NTSB believes that the glide slope indicator may have been unreliable due to precipitation static. One of the two crew members and one of the two passengers were killed.

6. 22 March 1992; USAir F28-4000; New York, NY: The aircraft crashed just after takeoff in snowy conditions due to icing on the aircraft's wings. Three of the four crew members and 24 of the 47 passengers were killed.

7. 2 July 1994; USAir DC9-31; Charlotte, NC: The aircraft encountered heavy rain and wind shear during approach at about 3.5 miles (5.6 km) from the runway. The crew executed attempted to go around for another landing attempt, but the aircraft could not overcome the wind shear. All five crew members survived, but 37 of the 52 passengers were killed.

8. 8 September 1994; USAir 737-300; near Pittsburgh, PA: The aircraft lost control at about 6,000 feet (1830 meters) during approach. All five crew members and 127 passengers were killed.

9. 8 January 2003; US Airways Express (Air Midwest) Beech 1900; Charlotte, NC: The aircraft crashed into a maintenance hanger at the airport shortly after it departed for a flight to Greenville, SC. The NTSB determined that the loss of pitch control resulted from a combination of an incorrectly rigged elevator control system and by the airplane’s aft center of gravity being substantially aft of the certified limit. Both pilots and all 19 passengers were killed in the crash.

America West

http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/amw.htm

America West has not had any passenger fatalities since it began service in 1983
 
You are an AHOLE and a moron. I'd rather fly with a US East pilot at the controls any day.
 
Of course Capt Ztiface failed to note that instances 4. 5. 8. and 9. were NOT pilot-related and were failures of other factors and systems.

Like Mark Twain said: "There's lies, damned lies, and statistics."
 
I read through several of the "west" ASAP type reports last week in a safety newsletter and was very surprised.

The west operation reads like some of the commuters that operated twenty years ago ! :down:

There was one incident where the guys were trying to do a night visual in ABQ and went around several times after lining up for the wrong runway and finally landing in an Airbus totally unstabilized at a high terrain airport :shock: !!!

This corresponds to several conversations I have had with check airmen observing / JSing on cactus flights.

What scares me the most is when you combine this type of cowboy flying with the seniority / operational meltdown and the traditional high risk period following a merger ... :shock: :shock: :shock:
Good luck to us all

None of this needs to be aired on a public webboard.
 
None of this needs to be aired on a public webboard.

I disagree!! This is TOTALLY where it should be. I'm sure the damage from this won't hail in comparison to all the other screw ups this team has made and the millions lost because of it.
 
I disagree!! This is TOTALLY where it should be. I'm sure the damage from this won't hail in comparison to all the other screw ups this team has made and the millions lost because of it.


Our flying public is probably thrilled to see all of this dirty laundry. I swear, sometimes you folks act like there is a bottomless pit of customers to draw from.

Keep this up...word gets around. See you in the soup line.


A320 Driver <_<
 
Folks, I hate to break it to you, but the public could read about these things when they happened. This is not some huge surprise.

Give the "airing the dirty laundry in public" thing a break. The public is far smarter than you give it credit for.
 
Our flying public is probably thrilled to see all of this dirty laundry. I swear, sometimes you folks act like there is a bottomless pit of customers to draw from.

Keep this up...word gets around. See you in the soup line.
A320 Driver <_<


Friend, this forum is at best entertainment. The flying public...short of dedicated FF's...only care about a cheap ticket.
 
I read through several of the "west" ASAP type reports last week in a safety newsletter and was very surprised.

The west operation reads like some of the commuters that operated twenty years ago ! :down:

There was one incident where the guys were trying to do a night visual in ABQ and went around several times after lining up for the wrong runway and finally landing in an Airbus totally unstabilized at a high terrain airport :shock: !!!

This corresponds to several conversations I have had with check airmen observing / JSing on cactus flights.

What scares me the most is when you combine this type of cowboy flying with the seniority / operational meltdown and the traditional high risk period following a merger ... :shock: :shock: :shock:
Good luck to us all

TOTAL TOTAL TOAL fabrication, Nifong...er I mean Kubota. Are you that pissed to be below Dave that you resort to making stuff up?
 
TOTAL TOTAL TOAL fabrication, Nifong...er I mean Kubota. Are you that pissed to be below Dave that you resort to making stuff up?
Yeah, I agree ..since they went around several times, are we to actually believe they lined up for the wrong runway several times?? doubtful
 
Yeah, I agree ..since they went around several times, are we to actually believe they lined up for the wrong runway several times?? doubtful

Assuming the wrong runway seems a bit far fetched to me as well. I do wonder a wee bit about "going around several times"?????? Were there thunderstorms present?, High and gusty winds?
 

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