Company to eliminate Availability Lines
- Thread starter jimntx
- Start date
B
B.O.B.
Guest
If STL even remains a base! I would put money on it that STL will be gone soon. Just my opinion.
Regarding Availability, I can't stand it. It's the kiss-of-death for a high-time flyer at a small base. You can't pick up anything until you have actually flown the hours you owe the company. There is no guarantee Option II will be open at the end of the month and if there are no trips in Open Time, you are SOL.
I found it to be incredibly restrictive and frustrating..."No, you can't pick up the only trip in Open Time which is a 3 day, you're only good for 1 day, but you can go on Makeup"...ARGH!!! Then the trip goes to a Reserve who is probably good at the end of the month but has to be released earlier because they've maxed out. I have maxed out on 3 of my last 4 RSV rotations.
It seems like if AVBL were less restrictive on what trips you could fly, you could skate the RSV F/As through the first half of the month and save them for the last half when AVBL starts maxing out.
Don't even get me started on Trip Trading with Open Time..."can't trade RED for REDDER"...ARGH! What is that? The trip is in Open Time, I'm willing to fly it...what's the problem? Then THAT trip goes to a RSV. All I want is my 95-100 hours a month...OE, TT, whatever it takes.
AVBL is great if you only fly your guarantee...then there are those who fly "AVOIDability". That's where you don't plot yourself and get released because there is nothing in Open Time. Of course, it can backfire at times but at a small base it usually works.
I don't think they should do away with AVBL, I just don't want to fly it. I'll take Vacation Relief any day of the week. At least I can work with my schedule.
On another note, they must really be trying to get rid of RSV preferences because they are testing them at SLT and BOS, bases where they don't work since we are small and the trips are limited. Why not test it in DFW or ORD?
Coop
SLT
I found it to be incredibly restrictive and frustrating..."No, you can't pick up the only trip in Open Time which is a 3 day, you're only good for 1 day, but you can go on Makeup"...ARGH!!! Then the trip goes to a Reserve who is probably good at the end of the month but has to be released earlier because they've maxed out. I have maxed out on 3 of my last 4 RSV rotations.
It seems like if AVBL were less restrictive on what trips you could fly, you could skate the RSV F/As through the first half of the month and save them for the last half when AVBL starts maxing out.
Don't even get me started on Trip Trading with Open Time..."can't trade RED for REDDER"...ARGH! What is that? The trip is in Open Time, I'm willing to fly it...what's the problem? Then THAT trip goes to a RSV. All I want is my 95-100 hours a month...OE, TT, whatever it takes.
AVBL is great if you only fly your guarantee...then there are those who fly "AVOIDability". That's where you don't plot yourself and get released because there is nothing in Open Time. Of course, it can backfire at times but at a small base it usually works.
I don't think they should do away with AVBL, I just don't want to fly it. I'll take Vacation Relief any day of the week. At least I can work with my schedule.
On another note, they must really be trying to get rid of RSV preferences because they are testing them at SLT and BOS, bases where they don't work since we are small and the trips are limited. Why not test it in DFW or ORD?
Coop
SLT
I hate availability too. You have to look in open time every 5 seconds. Then if something is in there you usually are off by one day and have to hope there's a three day on your days so you can tt with open time for the one you do want. Then you have to hope the lights are green for the one you really want to. It's a gamble.
Otherwise you can wait for the one you do want to pop in there. Or you can wait until the day before for a better trip only to find out there is none or someone else beat you to it at 5 am. A little too stressful for me.
Just give me a vacation line too and I can work wonders.
I just have one gripe with vacation lines though. I am not senior enough to hold the good Europe, SA, and turn lines on vacation and I am senior enough to hold the London lines as a regular bid. I would love to hold London as a vacation line so I wasn't working 800 days a month and I had days to work with to pick up other trips.
That's what happened this month. I didn't have enough days off between trips to pick up the 5 day Brazil which is only back for this month. It killed me because there were a million in hiboard I couldn't get. Nobody was taking my trips either because everyone was trying to clear their own schedules to take the Brazil.
I wish:
-we had more flexibility with open time.
- we could bid for a vacation line only and didn't have to bid it as a regular line first.
Then my life would be perfect. Or then I could start b**hing about something else.
In regards to DFW/ORD being larger reserve bases. A lot has to do with them being the biggest hubs and having available crews for OSO. Overstaffing reserves to a certain extent in DFW and ORD helps keep the company from cancelling due to crew legalities and minimizing delays for misconnecting crew members.
Garfield1966
Veteran
Actually as far as I am aware we are not. We are trying to prove to someone who believes that it works that it does not (the way it presently set up) I believe you have to be with in a certain range of hours to be able to have your preferences take effect. Unfortunately, that range is shot about 1 to 2 weeks into the month if not less and everyone is out of range. We would like to do away with the range entirely so that preferences can be honored more often. Part of the test involves plotted straight GTD with no deviation regardless of operational needs. We would never risk doing that at a major base. That would screw things up in a big way. A least in the small bases we can transfer in/out as needed.
B
B.O.B.
Guest
Here is the deal on AVBL:
I just got off the phone with my source regarding this big rumor. Roy Everett, wants to eliminate the majority of Open Replacement lines, because he hates it. This is not going to eliminate AVBL but it will place f/a's who are not on the back-up list onto it. Then it will put f/a's who are on the back-up list onto reserve for their month. We will still be on the 3 off and 1 on rotations. If and when AA hires again, then they will will be on the 1 on and 1 off rotation up to their 3 year mark.
Roy Everett, wants to eliminate AVBL all together. FYI Roy...IT'S CONTRACTUAL AND YOU CAN"T DO IT!
The company has been trying to get rid of AVBL since the 1993 strike. This is contractual and they can't just take it away. Yes, AA can use it as a negotiation tool in the next contract talks. But, remember one of the reasons AA f/a's went on strike in 1993? Eliminating AVBL and trying to go with Preferential Bidding. The APFA is 1,000% against the emimination of AVBL and Preferential Bidding.
I just got off the phone with my source regarding this big rumor. Roy Everett, wants to eliminate the majority of Open Replacement lines, because he hates it. This is not going to eliminate AVBL but it will place f/a's who are not on the back-up list onto it. Then it will put f/a's who are on the back-up list onto reserve for their month. We will still be on the 3 off and 1 on rotations. If and when AA hires again, then they will will be on the 1 on and 1 off rotation up to their 3 year mark.
Roy Everett, wants to eliminate AVBL all together. FYI Roy...IT'S CONTRACTUAL AND YOU CAN"T DO IT!
The company has been trying to get rid of AVBL since the 1993 strike. This is contractual and they can't just take it away. Yes, AA can use it as a negotiation tool in the next contract talks. But, remember one of the reasons AA f/a's went on strike in 1993? Eliminating AVBL and trying to go with Preferential Bidding. The APFA is 1,000% against the emimination of AVBL and Preferential Bidding.
Here is the deal on AVBL:
I just got off the phone with my source regarding this big rumor. Roy Everett, wants to eliminate the majority of Open Replacement lines, because he hates it. This is not going to eliminate AVBL but it will place f/a's who are not on the back-up list onto it. Then it will put f/a's who are on the back-up list onto reserve for their month. We will still be on the 3 off and 1 on rotations. If and when AA hires again, then they will will be on the 1 on and 1 off rotation up to their 3 year mark.
Roy Everett, wants to eliminate AVBL all together. FYI Roy...IT'S CONTRACTUAL AND YOU CAN"T DO IT!
The company has been trying to get rid of AVBL since the 1993 strike. This is contractual and they can't just take it away. Yes, AA can use it as a negotiation tool in the next contract talks. But, remember one of the reasons AA f/a's went on strike in 1993? Eliminating AVBL and trying to go with Preferential Bidding. The APFA is 1,000% against the emimination of AVBL and Preferential Bidding.
so you are saying that if we lose open replacement then everyone on the backup is not given an opportunity to bid a line they are just going to automatically be put on reserve? The reserve list would be increased by about 1-2 years on every list if that were the case.
I don't know the ins and out of it, but I was told by a union person that the company can eliminate availability lines because the contractual provisions don't say we have to have it, they only say how it will work. That is why they were able to come up with the provision about maxing out only after trips flown. I guess I am going to have to go through the contract regarding avbl to verify it. If it is true we are hosed.
operaations
Veteran
- Jul 31, 2003
- 562
- 0
skymess you are correct 100 percent. The contract only points out how AVBL will be used. It has never been a contractual obligation to have AVBL. And I know Roy wants to get rid of it and the union doesnt. I dont think it will be gone any time soon in my opinion
B
B.O.B.
Guest
For all of you questioning AVBL in the contract, including Open Replacement you need to read the following: You will also need to refer to the Restructuring Agreement. If you don't have a copy of your contract...Shame on you!
AVBL is here to stay!! This is not up for negotiation with AA, now or ever. APFA will not give this up in any concessions or new negotiations.
Article 9 - Scheduling
Page 102
Topic
1. Classification of Flight Attendants... page 102
a. Regularly Scheduled Flight Attendant... page 102
C. Replacement Flight Attendants... page 103
1. Classification... page 103
2. Categories... page 103
a. Regular Replacement... page 103
b. Open Replacement... page 104
4. Flight Attendant Obligation with Available (AVBL) Day(s)... page 104
a. Available (AVBL) Days... page 104
5. Planned Duty-Free Replacement Selections... page 106
AVBL is here to stay!! This is not up for negotiation with AA, now or ever. APFA will not give this up in any concessions or new negotiations.
Article 9 - Scheduling
Page 102
Topic
1. Classification of Flight Attendants... page 102
a. Regularly Scheduled Flight Attendant... page 102
C. Replacement Flight Attendants... page 103
1. Classification... page 103
2. Categories... page 103
a. Regular Replacement... page 103
b. Open Replacement... page 104
4. Flight Attendant Obligation with Available (AVBL) Day(s)... page 104
a. Available (AVBL) Days... page 104
5. Planned Duty-Free Replacement Selections... page 106
operaations
Veteran
- Jul 31, 2003
- 562
- 0
those are the rules that govern AVBL. I hate to argue with you but I assure you there is nothing in the contract that guarentees AVBL. It is not a negotiated Line
Only Reserve and Hard Lines are.
I agree with you that AVBL is here to stayt but it is not a negotiated type of flying. The only thing that is negotiated is how it is used if the company wants to use it.
hey Garfield how are the family jewles feeling
Only Reserve and Hard Lines are.
I agree with you that AVBL is here to stayt but it is not a negotiated type of flying. The only thing that is negotiated is how it is used if the company wants to use it.
hey Garfield how are the family jewles feeling
B
B.O.B.
Guest
I will have to look hard and deep, but there's a part in the CBA that protects AVBL from being eliminated.
When I find it I will post it.
When I find it I will post it.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #58
This is correct. Look on pages 103-104 of the contract which addresses the different types and instances of available days being on a schedule. Nowhere does it say that availability lines must be offered. It only specifies how availability will work.
The definition of a an Open Replacement flight attendant implies that it might or might not be offered. The contract defines an Open Replacement flight attendant as one with either no assignment flying or have one or more trip sequences which were not awarded/assigned...i.e., if you get a vacation replacement they can fill the non-vacation part of the month with available days. If you are put on reserve you do not qualify under "no assignment flying."
However, and this is going to require contract interpretation by people more familiar with the process than I...
Page 106 of the contract suggests at least "some" required replacement lines (remember the contractual term is open replacement, not availability)must be offered. It states that once the company has determined the "total number of reserves planned for the purpose of variable staffing," the company will "reduce that amount by 40%" and that amount "shall be used to determine the amount of planned duty-free replacement selections offered." But then, if by variable staffing they mean VMC, then availability is a gone goose because 40% of zero is zero.
Next few months should prove to be verrryyyy een-tair-resting.
B
B.O.B.
Guest
Roy Everett, needs to take a hike! He is so anti flight attendant, it's unreal. His job title should be "Flight Attendant Screwer."
I found it to be incredibly restrictive and frustrating..."No, you can't pick up the only trip in Open Time which is a 3 day, you're only good for 1 day, but you can go on Makeup"...ARGH!!! Then the trip goes to a Reserve who is probably good at the end of the month but has to be released earlier because they've maxed out. I have maxed out on 3 of my last 4 RSV rotations.
It seems like if AVBL were less restrictive on what trips you could fly, you could skate the RSV F/As through the first half of the month and save them for the last half when AVBL starts maxing out.
Don't even get me started on Trip Trading with Open Time..."can't trade RED for REDDER"...ARGH! What is that? The trip is in Open Time, I'm willing to fly it...what's the problem? Then THAT trip goes to a RSV.
*********************************************************
I refer to the above and the dead-on description of flying AVBL in the post by Skymess (I got stressed out just from READING the first two paragraphs
) because of the InfoRep hotline from yesterday.
In a nutshell...the APFA is being "bombarded" with calls about AVBL.
Crew Resources is considering reducing Open Replacement as much as CONTRACTUALLY possible by June 1st.
AA contends that AVBL is not covering the flying that AA needs when they need it, and it is driving RSV utilization.
Well, no freakin' kidding! See above again.
Skymess, did you ever see a trip you wanted go to a RSV? I sure did. I once got an AVBL schedule that was 2 on, 2 off and we only had turns and 3 days! If there was only a 3 day in Open Time, I couldn't get it, no matter how much I begged and pleaded. Then it went to a RSV and I suddenly had an unplanned day off.
I still think if they eased the restrictions on AVBL and TTOT, they wouldn't use as many Reserve F/As for the first 20 days of the month. Schedulers, what are your thoughts?
APFA wants to avoid the reduction of AVBL and is trying to come up with an alternate solution.
The recall issue is addressed as well. AA has not notified APFA of recalls at all for the near future. 500 F/As are on bid leaves for March.
It's feeling very stagnant on Domestic but there is a flurry of International movement so that is at least something.
Coop
SLT
It seems like if AVBL were less restrictive on what trips you could fly, you could skate the RSV F/As through the first half of the month and save them for the last half when AVBL starts maxing out.
Don't even get me started on Trip Trading with Open Time..."can't trade RED for REDDER"...ARGH! What is that? The trip is in Open Time, I'm willing to fly it...what's the problem? Then THAT trip goes to a RSV.
*********************************************************
I refer to the above and the dead-on description of flying AVBL in the post by Skymess (I got stressed out just from READING the first two paragraphs
) because of the InfoRep hotline from yesterday.In a nutshell...the APFA is being "bombarded" with calls about AVBL.
Crew Resources is considering reducing Open Replacement as much as CONTRACTUALLY possible by June 1st.
AA contends that AVBL is not covering the flying that AA needs when they need it, and it is driving RSV utilization.
Well, no freakin' kidding! See above again.
Skymess, did you ever see a trip you wanted go to a RSV? I sure did. I once got an AVBL schedule that was 2 on, 2 off and we only had turns and 3 days! If there was only a 3 day in Open Time, I couldn't get it, no matter how much I begged and pleaded. Then it went to a RSV and I suddenly had an unplanned day off.
I still think if they eased the restrictions on AVBL and TTOT, they wouldn't use as many Reserve F/As for the first 20 days of the month. Schedulers, what are your thoughts?
APFA wants to avoid the reduction of AVBL and is trying to come up with an alternate solution.
The recall issue is addressed as well. AA has not notified APFA of recalls at all for the near future. 500 F/As are on bid leaves for March.
It's feeling very stagnant on Domestic but there is a flurry of International movement so that is at least something.
Coop
SLT
