What's new

Dec 2012/Jan 2013 IAM Fleet Service Discussions

Status
Not open for further replies.
at United, Rich Delaney had the sole and exclusive ability to just go by internal union policy regarding the UA/CO merger. Instead, he brought management party to the case and hired an arbitrator, effectively washing his hands. Arbitrators and seniority have some of the most terrible decisions, yet that is exactly where the IAM chose to take it. That said, if the arbitrator does a hatchet job at United, will you blame the arbitrator or blame Delaney for not addressing it internally? regards,

The IAM is a company union and only supports consolidation when they feel they will gain members. Buffy was against the DL-NW merger in 2008 because he worried the IAM would lose members and every single IAM-represented work group at NW got decertified. Remember the simulator technicians election? When the IAM got a revote they had even fewer supporters.

Josh
 
As were other unions and politicians who have nothing to do with the IAM.

You are a financial person, you post misinformation on a consistant basis.

And this thread is about US fleet Service, not DL, not NW, not about Buffenbarger.

Go back and worship your idol tim and spread more misinformation.

UA IAM CBA vs CO IBT CBA

http://www.voteiam.com/images/Comparison.Combined.pdf
 
Sadly the company has figured out how to gear these CBA's to pass a vote by making them attractive to a targeted group. They toss a few positive items in there in order to appeal to a certain majority of the voters. A prime example is the 2008 T/A where they increased the wages for a large group, in this case the West, and they moved up the 3rd week of vac to 10 years to appeal to the junior people.
If anyone here honestly believes that the voters in a Hub give a crap about their brothers in the small stations being outsourced, they are sadly mistaken. The youngster's that vote today only see a small part of the picture, and very few if any of them even have a friggen clue as to what we have lost in the last 12 years. I have even spoken to several senior people who were clueless about what went down with the mass outsourcing in 2005, and none of them were the least bit informed about the stupid assed 60 day furlough rule which they voted into effect.
Another issue with the unions is that there are no penalties when the company drags their feet in negotiations, which enables the company to string us along without increasing our wages. Anyone here care to wager that we will NEVER see any retroactive pay?
Wings 396,
Your post speaks the sad truth about the Fleet Service workgroup and I couldn't agree more. This is a group who, for the most part, are short sighted, self centered, uninvolved, disengaged, uninformed and apathetic.The company has no respect for this workgroup because of these faults and views us as an easy target.
It's no wonder, although represented, we have no leverage in negotiating improvements with either US or AA in working conditions. Until we can clean up our own house, regarding the forementioned faults, it is unjust to blame any particular union, union leadership team or the company for our problems. Awhile ago I started this thread. At the time it was titled Fleet Service Apathy. Since then it was changed to Fleet Discussions. When I started the thread I invited input on how to fix the problem of apathy within the group. To this day I still believe this issue is the root of many of our problems both with the membership and the union. IMO... until we find a way to fix our "in house" faults one should not expect much improvement... regardless of our union or leadership team. In closing... I consider any Fleet Service who communicate on this thread, regardless of their opinion, an exception to the forementioned faults.
ograc
 
Tut ,tut , tut ... Name dropping now are we Mike ? I don't believe I have ever shared my name with anyone on this board ....LOL This is SO amusing ... your so scared of me you trying to "expose" me ....Well let's have a last name then shall we ? Who am I ? I mean since you've already gotten my first name wrong let's have a last one as well ( maybe you got that part right ) ... You see this is yet ANOTHER reason that shows why we cannot keep the IAM ... They are so intent on staying in power , that they WILL try to find you , whoever you are, if you have a differing opinion of them .. For years I have been a member of this message board , we have had our discussions over union issues and new contracts openly , yet behind secret identities .... And while there has always been speculation over whom the people on this board might be , no one that I am aware of , UNTIL NOW ... has ever attempted to publicly expose the other people ...Sorry if I make this sound more dramatic than it already is , I mean I know who many of these posters on our message board are , and for me , it's no biggie , I don't care , I would never share their personal information ...but there's something all of you reading this need to know ,MIKE33 , is the unofficial representative of the IAM on here ... I say unofficial because he doesn't go by his real name ... but I have NO DOUBT , that HE is part of the 100K club ... If you don't believe me , go back into his past posts and read his UNWAIVERING support for the IAM and the New Direction in all things ....His views are lockstep with keeping himself and his friends in those 100 K positions ... Is this truly the type of union that you want , one that lacks integrity ? One that will attempt to bully you if you so much as speak out against it ? I mean we are ALL aware of the incident that occurred many years ago when the TWU sent out agents to collect cards on the east coast and got the snot beat out of them ...Did we vote for this union to Represent us , or to CONTROL us ?
Maybe it's time to quit blaming current and past representatives of the IAM for our problems. It's time to look in the mirror. It's time to see ourselves for who we truly are. A workgroup that is for the most part; self centered, uninformed, uninvolved, divided and apathetic. We have no one to blame but ourselves. When you point a finger... three point back at yourself. While we should be seeking common ground on issues important to all of our futures; too much effort is spent on personal attacks and blame of others for our current state of affairs. This lends itself to distraction from the pertinent issues and further division of an already fractured work group. There is already plenty of that with this group. The focus should be on finding common ground and future goals for this group. Building solidarity around those future goals and moving forward to achieve it. Until this is achieved this group has no hope of improving their current state. No one controls our futures but us. Let's act accordingly.
ograc
 
Maybe it's time to quit blaming current and past representatives of the IAM for our problems. It's time to look in the mirror. It's time to see ourselves for who we truly are. A workgroup that is for the most part; self centered, uninformed, uninvolved, divided and apathetic. We have no one to blame but ourselves. When you point a finger... three point back at yourself. While we should be seeking common ground on issues important to all of our futures; too much effort is spent on personal attacks and blame of others for our current state of affairs. This lends itself to distraction from the pertinent issues and further division of an already fractured work group. There is already plenty of that with this group. The focus should be on finding common ground and future goals for this group. Building solidarity around those future goals and moving forward to achieve it. Until this is achieved this group has no hope of improving their current state. No one controls our futures but us. Let's act accordingly.
ograc
I respectfully disagree. The membership is witness to the leadership. If it is fractured or divided then it's the leadership which must direct. It wouldn't matter if the masses were all singing kumbuya if the leadership doesn't know how to bring about solidarity, or in the UA case, doesn't want to. IMO, the membership isn't as fractured as you may think. Let's say the masses are all singing kumbuya and there is no division, what then?
 
Wings 396,
Your post speaks the sad truth about the Fleet Service workgroup and I couldn't agree more. This is a group who, for the most part, are short sighted, self centered, uninvolved, disengaged, uninformed and apathetic.The company has no respect for this workgroup because of these faults and views us as an easy target.
It's no wonder, although represented, we have no leverage in negotiating improvements with either US or AA in working conditions. Until we can clean up our own house, regarding the forementioned faults, it is unjust to blame any particular union, union leadership team or the company for our problems. Awhile ago I started this thread. At the time it was titled Fleet Service Apathy. Since then it was changed to Fleet Discussions. When I started the thread I invited input on how to fix the problem of apathy within the group. To this day I still believe this issue is the root of many of our problems both with the membership and the union. IMO... until we find a way to fix our "in house" faults one should not expect much improvement... regardless of our union or leadership team. In closing... I consider any Fleet Service who communicate on this thread, regardless of their opinion, an exception to the forementioned faults.
ograc
Couldn't disagree more. Working and leading the organizing drives for the IAM at United, I encountered a membership that was willing and quite able to help out in most any way I asked. It's all about leadership, in the organizing department that wasn't a problem as the leadership understood how to empower and engage the members and give them ownership and direction. Unfortunately, it was incredibly frustrating listening to the defeatist attitude of our leadership in the 'representational arm' at the office. A lot of laziness, ignorance and lack of education in formulating strategy to help build leverage in negotiations. If a labor rep is doing his job, it's never a 9-5 40 hour a week job. Almost always working if it's done right. At US AIRWAYS, the day is young, but at United and Hawaiian it is easily shown how there have been incredible missteps that gave leverage away to management without getting anything in return. The membership has all the tools needed. And any apathy or frustration is the collateral damage of being leaderless. Leading must involve academic and cerebral but unfortunately we are dealing with leaders who haven't even self educated themselves towards case models, research, etc., and have no idea how to apply any strategy to the culture of the masses. regards,
 
As were other unions and politicians who have nothing to do with the IAM.

You are a financial person, you post misinformation on a consistant basis.

And this thread is about US fleet Service, not DL, not NW, not about Buffenbarger.

Go back and worship your idol tim and spread more misinformation.

UA IAM CBA vs CO IBT CBA

http://www.voteiam.c...on.Combined.pdf
700. so nice of you to link my flyer I created in the United ramp campaign. The strategy I incorporated with the campaign against the Teamsters was one of contract comparison. At that time, the IAM contract at UA was superior to the contract at CO. However, it didn't necessarily follow that the representation was better in applying either contract. For instance, the IBT represented CalMicro for years and never lost a job or work. And even though stations weren't protected in the Continental contract, the Teamsters threatened management with severe consequences after management announced the closing of 7 stations. Management changed its mind and decided to leave the stations open along with cargo. OTOH, with IAM representation, management has contracted out 2,500 jobs in just 1 year because IAM representation is soft and not willing to fight. Of course, with all the job loss in most IAM contracts, the IAM bosses usually say "Well, the contract allows the company to do this" or "You voted for this". Both statements are a bit unfair since the leadership has always pushed the contracts and given 'gloom and doom' scenerios if a contract is voted down. And when jobs are lost, nobody wants to hear "Well the company can do it". Much better is how the Teamsters handled management at Continental and drew a line in the sand and notified management that even though management can contract out jobs, the union can do some things as well.
 
Couldn't disagree more. Working and leading the organizing drives for the IAM at United, I encountered a membership that was willing and quite able to help out in most any way I asked. It's all about leadership, in the organizing department that wasn't a problem as the leadership understood how to empower and engage the members and give them ownership and direction. Unfortunately, it was incredibly frustrating listening to the defeatist attitude of our leadership in the 'representational arm' at the office. A lot of laziness, ignorance and lack of education in formulating strategy to help build leverage in negotiations. If a labor rep is doing his job, it's never a 9-5 40 hour a week job. Almost always working if it's done right. At US AIRWAYS, the day is young, but at United and Hawaiian it is easily shown how there have been incredible missteps that gave leverage away to management without getting anything in return. The membership has all the tools needed. And any apathy or frustration is the collateral damage of being leaderless. Leading must involve academic and cerebral but unfortunately we are dealing with leaders who haven't even self educated themselves towards case models, research, etc., and have no idea how to apply any strategy to the culture of the masses. regards,
As stated... change and an awakening must come from both the membership and the union leadership. Don't be so quick to place all of the blame and accountability on the leadership. If I were to take a poll today...how many members would know who their DL or INt'l President was? How many members would have attended at least 50% of their Local Lodge meetings in the past year? I agree effective leadership would certainly improve solidarity but one has to be willing to get involved, engaged, educated and care for the common good as an individual member. I'm not convinced this initiative and drive exists with the vast majority of our workgroup and membership. I've seen changes in union leadership. Some that you have endorsed. I have yet to see a change in results Tim. I'm involved as a Grievance Chair, Safety Rep. and Recording Secretary of my local not because of my union leadership but because of my personal values and beliefs.
 
hope bdl and pvd were added to class 1 cities in order to get the original contract the 2005 agreement in place which effectively screwed all the class 2 cities thousands of employees out the door even after an orig agreement for 13.01 deal top pay but think it also dealt with the whole mid atlantic issue with the 170s etc...

freedom.......coc is essential.. however you will never ever understand bec you are too wraped in mgmt arms... unless of course your mgmt.... yes the twu gave up the coc and more.... you are pro mgmt its more clear that you are mgmt or pro mgmt. as mike just posted his link speaks volume for the way this outfit thinks of fsa.... by way of negogiations with AA INSTEAD OF US OWN UNIONS.... IM STILL WAITING FOR YOU TO ANSWER WHAT WILL DP DO OR SAY IF THIS MERGER DOES NOT HAPPEN... HE SURE AS HELL CANT SHOW HIS UGLY FACE TO THE UNIONS HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN WORKING TO GET A DEAL WITH INSTEAD OF WORRYING ABOUT A FLIPPIN MERGER AND GETTING AGREEMENTS WITH AA
 
As stated... change and an awakening must come from both the membership and the union leadership. Don't be so quick to place all of the blame and accountability on the leadership. If I were to take a poll today...how many members would know who their DL or INt'l President was? How many members would have attended at least 50% of their Local Lodge meetings in the past year? I agree effective leadership would certainly improve solidarity but one has to be willing to get involved, engaged, educated and care for the common good as an individual member. I'm not convinced this initiative and drive exists with the vast majority of our workgroup and membership. I've seen changes in union leadership. Some that you have endorsed. I have yet to see a change in results Tim. I'm involved as a Grievance Chair, Safety Rep. and Recording Secretary of my local not because of my union leadership but because of my personal values and beliefs.
Fair enough. However, I'm not a big proponent of measuring the resolve of a membership by the attendance of union meetings even though I'm quite sure it is a barometer used by the Labor unions in measurements. regards.
 
Hell with the West getting pay parity.... How about ALL the EAST Stations getting Parity !!!!! The Class II citites on the East along with the West, voted in the contract. The Class II cities on the East were sold down the river by the Class I's. How did it work out for BDL & PIT by the way ?????

Wait, you guys don't all make one top of scale rate? What is that all about?
 
Fair enough. However, I'm not a big proponent of measuring the resolve of a membership by the attendance of union meetings even though I'm quite sure it is a barometer used by the Labor unions in measurements. regards.
I can't speak for all locals but the ones I've attended or been a member of have dismal turnout indeed. You're right attendance shouldn't be used to measure the resolve but I think it's fair to say for the most part we have a disengaged, uninformed, self centered and apathetic workgroup. This needs to be addressed and improved upon if we have any hope of improving our working conditions. Until then we can expect more of the same.
 
Wait, you guys don't all make one top of scale rate? What is that all about?
At this point everyone is on the same scale, but that wasn't always the case. The HP employees (west) were paid at a lower rate until 5/08 when a transition agreement was voted in systemwide. Prior to the US/HP merger, the US Fleet group had Class 1 & Class 2 stations, with the Class 2 being paid at a lower rate as well as being subject to outsourcing should their station fall below a given amount of weekly M/L flts. This is just another example of why there is very little harmony within the IAM Fleet group. The big stations threw everyone else under the bus in order to
SLIGHTLY benefit themselves.
 
Wait, you guys don't all make one top of scale rate? What is that all about?
Wait, you guys don't all make one top of scale rate? What is that all about?

Easy just put a contract out there to vote on and have two pay scales one for the big station and one for the small and medium stations or do what AA did have a B scales for new hires
 
Easy just put a contract out there to vote on and have two pay scales one for the big station and one for the small and medium stations or do what AA did have a B scales for new hires

B scale gone for a decade now,anyone that was hired in on B scale was placed on A scale in '03.

I suppose US hired guys at top pay?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top