Democracy

[James T. Kirk]

Name: Bento Ver
Email:
Employer: NWA
Station: MSP
Date: Friday December 24, 2004
Time: 09:36:56 AM


Comments
At some point in time, preferably before hell freezes over, it would be nice to see if Jim Young or Jeff Mathews can find their balls. I have been to NWA's negotiations as an observer. After AMFA allowed NWA to kick us out of negotiations with little resistance AMFA tried to explain their willingness to bend over to NWA with the following line....."Guys, guys, listen guys, if we don't get in there and negotiate with the company the company might request mediation". Now in Jim Young's posting Julie Showers (who knows she's found AMFA's weakness) threatens AMFA with a Request for Mediation if AMFA doesn't agree to bargain more. AMFA you would of been better off listening to your members like you always promised to. You should of told NWA to pound sand, NO OBSERVERS, NO TALKS. Now, you're backed into a corner NWA has realized you're scared of mediation. Why would you be scared of mediation? You have professional negotiators don't you? You promised them to us. Take NWA into mediation and milk it out for a few years like they did to you last time. Can't you see what's happening? NWA doesn't want to let this draw out until our last raise of this contract so they're in a hurry to get a new contract before we get that raise. I just don't understand what you're so afraid of, Jim you and Delle were suggesting "Binding Arbitration" to us before. That's mediation. I guess you should of listened to the observers and stood your ground, now you're on the run and NWA knows it. You know what scares me? It's letting Jeff (little Richard) Mathews and Jim (I got mine) Young run the negotiations for the Union. Two big talkers with NO experience. By the way, when do we get to vote on the Contract Proposals to the company? I guess that's been baffling me, what happened to voting on the proposals per the AMFA Constitution? Who's fault is this? Jeff and Jim, why weren't you prepared for negotiations you've known for years it was starting in October? Another AMFA oversight? Who was responsible for this bungling? I won't hold my breath, you're worse than little kids, and I can hear you both now......"I dunno" "Me either". You two are both just a couple of overpaid dopes.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Kenny mah boy...I actually do see you as one that is concerned with our profession. Though I do NOT see I 2 I with you on what is best for our profession, or the vehicle to be used to better our profession, I still see you as one with good inentions. What really bothers me Kenny mah boy...is that I know you see amfa telling its' members to leave as observers, you see amfa entertaining wage concessions with a "no snap back" and yet Kenny mah boy, and yet, you ask about the TWU's International officer elections...you see mah dilemna here boy? You want to worry about small carrots when the main course is being served to our brothers....catch up kenny....I'll join you man...let's stop this bickering and start promoting our goods...wanna be a hero?...Then lead man...stop crying and get to business. While we argue about amfa/twu our profession is being sold down river...it's time to be a man...get some.

[post="231009"][/post]​

seg, or if you prefer, "mah boy" 🙂, bickering? I simply point out facts facing our profession and I am to be a man and get some? You want to promote our craft? I agree, let's do that. I simply want a CRAFT union that has OUR profession's future in mind instead of dues. I also want a union that is democratic where all international officers are elected by the full membership. That way there is accountability. I don't want a union that allows a person to change their "vote" from YES to NO to YES to NO, etc. With these aspects of a union where am I wrong in my thinking. Simple question.

I "worry about small carrots when the main course is being served to our brothers...." because a shitty appetizer leads to a shitty main course... like at AA.
A lousy union's constitution will not allow anyone to "catch up" seggy.

You want leadership? How about starting with you? I don't know any leaders that hide behind an alias. If you mean me leading I have done what I felt needs to be done. I believe in our proud craft & profession and see the four front attack we face. I see a union I pay dues to for leadership and protection but do not receive either. I do not come here to "bicker" seggy. I come here to stay informed and communicate with others within our profession. I have attended rallies and pickets and performed professionally at work.

You wish for me to "get some"? How about getting some respect for our craft & profession? How about not being lied to by our UNelected officers? Also, how about getting an answer to the original question of this thread?

 

[Seguro]

How about worrying about the future of our profession. Regardless of who's union represents, our future isn't looking real promising.

At 3rd party wages who really cares about International officers and what road they took to gain appointment? That is the direction we seem to be headed for. If we do not make a stand against these companies, and their paid for BK judges, we will either be lowering our lifestyles drastically, or seeking another profession.

AArpey has made the statement that he is watching the courts, prior to coming after our pensions, the writing is on the wall mah boy.

Oh yeah

I don't know any leaders that hide behind an alias.

that's really going to upset local 12's VP !!!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

How about worrying about the future of our profession. Regardless of who's union represents, our future isn't looking real promising.

At 3rd party wages who really cares about International officers and what road they took to gain appointment? That is the direction we seem to be headed for. If we do not make a stand against these companies, and their paid for BK judges, we will either be lowering our lifestyles drastically, or seeking another profession.

AArpey has made the statement that he is watching the courts, prior to coming after our pensions, the writing is on the wall mah boy.

Oh yeah that's really going to upset local 12's VP !!!

[post="231224"][/post]​

stevie, did you get kicked in the head by one of Santa's Reindeer? You miss the point completely. Who cares about international officers and what road they took to gain appointment? How about people who care about democracy & accountability?

Why do you refuse to answer a simple question?

As for upsetting Local 12's President you must be kidding. Right? Dave is not hiding behind an alias. Dave has stated his beliefs and his defense and promotion of our craft is nothing to be ashamed of. I have not seen Dave standing next to a rented coffin alongside people who do not have a voice in AMT matters. I have met and spoken with Dave about our professions attack by inept unions because he is capable of educating himself with facts and thus take positive actions to defend our profession. Something you seem unable to achieve.

You seem to have an affinity for "mah boys". Is this in keeping with some secret twu supporting guidelines?

 

[Seguro]

Dave is not hiding behind an alias.

You're blind in one eye and can't see out of the other, or a common liar...which is it?...mah boy.

 

[Decision 2004]

You're blind in one eye and can't see out of the other, or a common liar...which is it?...mah boy.

[post="231790"][/post]​

Think about it. If you are capable of such an act that is.

If I was "HIDING" behind an alias, then YOU wouldn't KNOW who I am.

Using an alias and HIDING behind one is two different things. Or is that over your head?

Since you have used my real name while responding to my postings here, I doubt that you can honestly claim I am "HIDING".

Maybe you can explain that with your well known twisted Jim Little type of logic. How is that you know who I am if I am "HIDING" behind an alias?

Looking forward to you explaining that one to us. B)

 

[Seguro]

Ohhhh....I'm sorry...I guess that makes Kenny boy a bit ignorant also...mah boy...

Just who are you? I was only making a stab in the dark before...go ahead..give your real name if ya like...followed with a h/p # would be nice.

....when is Local 12 having an open house?...love to see you serving dinner rolls in your french maid's outfit...that is..if I guessed correctly who you are...HAHAHA!!!

 

[Decision 2004]

Ohhhh....I'm sorry...I guess that makes Kenny boy a bit ignorant also...mah boy...

Just who are you? I was only making a stab in the dark before...go ahead..give your real name if ya like...followed with a h/p # would be nice.

[post="231887"][/post]​

You really expect us to believe that crap?

Get a Life!

 

[James T. Kirk]

Name: Cross the Line
Email:
Employer: There will be no Strike Vote at UAL
Station: There's no solidarity
Date: Sunday December 26, 2004
Time: 06:29:25 AM


Comments
Fighting Mad, just remember, if you go on strike with AMFA that's who you'll be out there with. AMFA. Do you really have enough faith in them to think they can or will hold the line? Or will they, on purpose, sabotage a strike for the company they're in bed with? What will the other Unions do if you go on Strike? Do you think they'll honor an AMFA picket line? You better have someone from AMFA call the AFL-CIO and ask them if they honor picket lines of Raider Associations. I would have my doubts about that. If I were in another Union and AMFA went on strike I'd go to work because AMFA doesn't need anybody else remember?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

The twu supporters still can not answer?

Keep hiding from the truth twu.

All twu international officers are NOT ellected by the full membership. Why is that?

 

[James T. Kirk]

Name: We need to call the Dept. of Labor
Email: no thanks
Employer: NWA
Station: MSPB
Date: Monday December 27, 2004
Time: 06:08:22 PM


Comments
Why is it that AMFA isn't following its own constitution when it come to negotiating with NWA?

The AMFA Constitution – September 2004

ARTICLE XV
CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS

SECTION 1

Contract proposals shall be submitted in writing by the members to the Local President at meetings so stipulated for that purpose, and the Local President shall submit the proposals to the Local Proposal Evaluation Committee. The Committee proposals, endorsed by the membership at the next meeting, shall be submitted to the Negotiation Committee.

SECTION 2

The Contract Negotiations Conference shall convene at least eight months prior to the expiration date of a contract and shall include all the Regional Directors and/or Regional Coordinators involved, plus each Airline Negotiator involved, as outlined in Section 3 of this Article. All Locals shall, on a pro rata basis of the affected members, pay the cost of the affected airline’s negotiating representatives. This cost payment method shall include the time and expenses incurred during negotiation preparation, negotiations, and contract implementation and interpretation after completion of negotiations.

Note: under the Railway Labor Act a contract doesn't expire it becomes amendable or renews itself!!
AMFAnator

SECTION 3

The Negotiating Committee shall be available no later than three months prior to either the intended starting date of negotiations or the amendable date of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, whichever occurs first. The proposals submitted by each Local in the affected airline will be submitted for a system wide vote of the affected airline, conducted by the NEC. The intent of this vote is to prioritize the submitted proposals in order of importance. The Contract Negotiations Conference will then determine the number of proposals to be taken forward to negotiations. This process shall be completed before the Negotiating Committee convenes.

When did we have a system wide vote on the submitted proposals? When did the Negotiating Committee convene? Where did the proposals come from that are currently being negotiated? Remember AMFA was supposed to be the only true democratic organization for technical aviation professionals. Through local autonomy the members were to control all aspects of their union. If AMFA is the most democratic union in the airline industry, how come we didn't get to vote on our proposals before negotiations began?
AMFAnator

 

[seed]

amfa is exempt from it's own constitution. It's a shame Local 33 negotiators are having such a problem.

 

[Bob Owens]

amfa is exempt from it's own constitution. It's a shame Local 33 negotiators are having such a problem.

[post="232907"][/post]​

Yea maybe they should follow the TWUs example of just giving the company everthing they want! Oh yea, they cant do that because at AMFA the members can hold them all accountable!

 

[seed]

Seems they are following no one except their own inability to grow a set. Company says get rid of the observers, AMFA says "OK BOSS,NO PROBLEM!". Company is hitting them with more concessions in pay/benefits without a "snapback" clause.

Hold accountable is only as good as the need. Looks as if Local 33 would run out of members to run for office by the end of the negotiations...great situation to get yourself into.

 

[cheetah]

hay seed, when does our snapback clause kick in for us at AA(T.W.U) because i sure could use it!