Dixie Daniels Elected to Domestic Negotiating Committee

[FurloughedByAPFA]

:mf_boff:

I mean AA being the largest airline and APFA being the largest CLOSED shop union....

HUH ??

 

[galleyguy4u2]

I would NEVER agree to another STAPLE JOB as was done to us. I think legislation will take care of that, at least I hope so. What I think is unfair is that a PROBATIONARY new hire was recalled before the TWA f/a's.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Maark767]

Don't try and make problems where ther are none. Dixie is a second alternate. She is a good voice for the junior f/as but has the experience of a senior f/a. What a great combination. As to the APFA having its **** together? How many ways can you spell RPA? You had better hope that IF there is another AA acquisition, AA isn't on the wrong end of the bk card. Your "ironclad" SCOPE was patterened after our "ironclad" SCOPE. It is what it is. And knowing the acquired, I can tell you they would rather see honest slotting than across the board staple. The worlds largest f/a workforce has dwindled from 24000 to 18000 thanks to the APFA. Now thats impressive.

You people keep forgetting that the RPA was forced down APFA's throat... There was no negoitating.... it was tossed on the table and the rest was history. It was not section 6 negoitions..... As far as the F/A's numbers going down... ALL airlines at that time were decreasing head count by thousands not just APFA and AA.

I'll take my chances on AA being acqiured....

 

[Maark767]

I don't know how old you are, but I'd guess you're on the young side of middle age. If you were old enough to remember the "old days", you wouldn't be so quick to throw around the terms Union and APFA in the same paragraph. A REAL Union fights for it's members and doesn't look for bodies to pad a membership list so that some members can step on other's backs to get what they want.

It's probably hard for you to believe but a REAL Union takes care of ALL it's dues payers, and protects them from the predatory practices that seem so pervasive in Management....then and now. Then, when as Flight Attendants (in our - TWA's - case Hostesses) we couldn't have children, had to sign out in an out-of-town book when we were on our way home and were REQUIRED to be at the signed for number during our days off. When Supervisors were free to slap our bottoms to see if we were wearing the required girdle. When they carried nail polish color charts and if yours happened to be frosted you could count on a visit to the Hangar and a "discussion" with your supervisor. When, if you'd call in sick, you'd get a daily check-in call from the Office just to see "how things were going".

When we could be put on "tan check". And, when the inevitable letter came sometime during our career that accused us of something, a REAL Union came with us into that meeting and saved our neck.

REAL Unions fought for and won all the things you now enjoy. You no longer have to worry about indiscriminate firing or harrassment or a Company that uses and then discards you because you're past a certain age or a certain weight.

Instead, Maark 767, your "Union" (and I use that term quite loosely) couldn't wait to put us under the membership umbrella - not to protect us and represent us and defend us from people such as yourself (who seems to gleefully hope that another airline acquired gives the existing membership that much more insulation), but so they could squeeze every last dime from us in Union dues before discarding us when we were no longer convenient. A REAL Union would have gone toe to toe with American Airlines when it was apparent that over 4,000 members - note I say members - were going to be kicked out the door with nothing but their dignity. You might want to take a look in the mirror and note that there are grand things about honor, and promises and doing the right thing.

You might also note that the people you at APFA and AA tried to discard, have more pride and dignity, even now, than you apparently have neglected to obtain in your lifetime.

Just remember one thing ... everyone blames APFA for stapling the TWA f/as to the bottom of the list but dont think for one minute AA did not have anything to do with it.... APFA is not the bad guy..
I still think APFA did the right thing....
Why should I have to suffer and loose senority because the TWA careers went away..... Dont put it on my back !

 

[Maark767]

:mf_boff:
HUH ??

Do still pay your dues to APFA ???

 

[nbmcg01]

You people keep forgetting that the RPA was forced down APFA's throat... There was no negoitating.... it was tossed on the table and the rest was history. It was not section 6 negoitions..... As far as the F/A's numbers going down... ALL airlines at that time were decreasing head count by thousands not just APFA and AA.

I'll take my chances on AA being acqiured....

The RPA was illegally "forced" because of ineffective negotiating. You walk away until the Co is ready to negotiate in good faith. The timeline was the key factor because of the SEC filing. Many of us tries to warn you guys which is why the APFA mesage board is now defunct. 1/4th of your membership is one heck of a loss. My guess is there would have been a substantially stronger effort to save jobs if it hadn't been for the furlough cushion provided by the acquisition. JW signed off on it and the responsibility lies at his feet. You don't agree to extend a vote only allowing yes votes..ethics? The APFA got caught with their pants down and caved. Do you not understand that this was probably the one time that the union actually had some power? The company had a need and the union was willing to provide that need. The trade of is how the dollars are arrived at during the talks. The company uses the press. APFA used nothing. As a long time labor advocate this is the one time in my career that actually boild my blood. It was all so unnecessary and yes I do blame JW for his arrogance and lack of insight. When challenged in STL he had no words. He knew we were right. He blew it.

 

[s80dude]

One small correction, APFA does NOT represent the worlds largest flight attendant workforce. I believe UAL has the worlds largest flight attendant workforce, and the AFA represents the MOST flight attendants. AMR won't be buying anyone, the dirty work has been done and doubt very seriously it would ever be allowed to happen again. Just think, AMR could be the one to be purchased, and no DOH policy in place .. CLICK CLICK

I thought AMR had more flight attendants on the roster. I thought UAL had about 16000 FAs on the roster. Maybe I am wrong, probably am.

 

[Maark767]

The RPA was illegally "forced" because of ineffective negotiating. You walk away until the Co is ready to negotiate in good faith. The timeline was the key factor because of the SEC filing. Many of us tries to warn you guys which is why the APFA mesage board is now defunct. 1/4th of your membership is one heck of a loss. My guess is there would have been a substantially stronger effort to save jobs if it hadn't been for the furlough cushion provided by the acquisition. JW signed off on it and the responsibility lies at his feet. You don't agree to extend a vote only allowing yes votes..ethics? The APFA got caught with their pants down and caved. Do you not understand that this was probably the one time that the union actually had some power? The company had a need and the union was willing to provide that need. The trade of is how the dollars are arrived at during the talks. The company uses the press. APFA used nothing. As a long time labor advocate this is the one time in my career that actually boild my blood. It was all so unnecessary and yes I do blame JW for his arrogance and lack of insight. When challenged in STL he had no words. He knew we were right. He blew it.

There was no power for the union as AA was minutes away from filing BK...... AA management was gettiing the cuts one way or another. Period ....
JW pushed for the RPA because he knew what the membership was in for if AA went to BK. A much gutted contract.
All 3 unions had AA doing the same thing to them....

 

[nbmcg01]

There was no power for the union as AA was minutes away from filing BK...... AA management was gettiing the cuts one way or another. Period ....
JW pushed for the RPA because he knew what the membership was in for if AA went to BK. A much gutted contract.
All 3 unions had AA doing the same thing to them....

I have some land I'd like to talk with you about....

It was about the SEC filing not bk.

The f/as were not as much of a financial player and if you think they were the land offer still stands.

BK would have been awful BUT the contracts aren't necessarily gutted, especially if the requested amount is "provided". The Company would have been forced to provide documentation on "value" and open the books. The pilots had the most at stake because of their defined benefit plan. Bween there, done that.

Loyalty is commendable but in this case, you were had. JW was not our father and had no right to make that decision. It was unethical, and every type of "wrong" you can define. He would do well with the IAM.

 

[L1011Ret]

You people keep forgetting that the RPA was forced down APFA's throat... There was no negoitating.... it was tossed on the table and the rest was history. It was not section 6 negoitions..... As far as the F/A's numbers going down... ALL airlines at that time were decreasing head count by thousands not just APFA and AA.

I'll take my chances on AA being acqiured....

You really should read the brief of attorney E. Bass in Marcoux v. APFA and AA. Then you'll get quite a different view of how the RPA went down. Let's just face it, APFA lied to its members and just did anything to please AA.

 

[L1011Ret]

You really should read the brief of attorney E. Bass in Marcoux v. APFA and AA. Then you'll get quite a different view of how the RPA went down. Let's just face it, APFA lied to its members and just did anything to please AA. As for AA being minutes from bankruptcy, that is truly false. Again check the testimony. It is as false as TWA about to file bankruptcy in 2001. That decision to file bankruptcy was AA's and not TWA's.

 

[FurloughedByAPFA]

Do still pay your dues to APFA ???

What ?? 😛h34r:

 

[Maark767]

I have some land I'd like to talk with you about....

It was about the SEC filing not bk.

The f/as were not as much of a financial player and if you think they were the land offer still stands.

BK would have been awful BUT the contracts aren't necessarily gutted, especially if the requested amount is "provided". The Company would have been forced to provide documentation on "value" and open the books. The pilots had the most at stake because of their defined benefit plan. Bween there, done that.

Loyalty is commendable but in this case, you were had. JW was not our father and had no right to make that decision. It was unethical, and every type of "wrong" you can define. He would do well with the IAM.

Yeah ok.... go talk to some UAL F/as that took two rounds of cuts and lost their pensions...
Get your head out of the sand.... contracts are ripped to shreds...... no value placed on anything... company wants it ,company gets it !!!!!

 

[Maark767]

You really should read the brief of attorney E. Bass in Marcoux v. APFA and AA. Then you'll get quite a different view of how the RPA went down. Let's just face it, APFA lied to its members and just did anything to please AA.

Oh thats what happened..... oh ok... all lies ... now I get it.....

 

[AC AA LA FA]

ouch!!

it bit................