Do You Think The Pilots Have To Give More?

[A320 Driver]

This is MUCH more entertaining. Great stress relief. Personal best is a little over 320 ft.

http://n.ethz.ch/student/mkos/pinguin.swf

A320 Driver :disguise:

 

[pitguy]

Dizel8,

I feel between $65 with a top out of about $90 is fine, but it is not up to me to decide. I realize the pilots have given more than any other group on the property. Some have said that is because they were more out of whack than others. Now to be honest it does not matter how much one has given. What does matter is how much is one compensated and still being competitive as a company. I truly do understand the pains and sacrifice the pilots have made. But you still have to look at the facts today and that being that U may not still make it. Is it best to just let it run into the ground? Of course not and that is why you need to look at reducing your wages (not benefits) and I feel then U will be able to turn around. If not is toast. Maybe that would be for the best. It is allot of weight on your shoulders. All of those families and being blamed for downing an airline. It is a heavy decision. Best of luck!





(320.9 for now.)

 

[A320 Driver]

Fact remains the U pilots make way more than Jet Blue pilots and U will be unable to compete until they reduce their wages. U did not go far enough with the cuts when they cut the quick deal with ALPA and now they will have no choice but to go back. To not do it would be grave!


www.airlinepilotpay.com/

Captain pay comparison.

U Captains make $64 less per hour than comparable Captain at Southwest.

U Captains make $14 less per hour than comparable Captain at Jet Blue.

So much for the "facts" Pit.


A320 Driver :cop:

You're busted!!!

 

[pitguy]

Haha...

You are sadly mistaken. You are looking at the top of the scale. Jet Blue does not have pilots at top scale. I 'clearly' stated that I was not speaking in terms regarding pay scales in an earlier post. I said pay that is brought home today. Besides look at the first officer scales and then look again at where U pilots fall on the scale and what they earn and then look at what Jet Blues young pilots make. It does not matter to me. Take the ship down. Who will be upset then? You must be proud of yourself. Destroying an airline.


I fly 100,000 miles globally a year. Guess how times I fly on an RJ? Tons here in the US. U has few RJs with cheap crews to compete. U can not compete. U dies. Your unemployed.


Besides Jet Blue makes money. U does not. Take a pay cut or lose your job.

 

[A320 Driver]

And they get overtime too. Anything above 70 hours a month is paid at time and a half.

What are you smokin Pit?

A320 Driver :cop:

PS Only mistake I made was readin your post.

 

[Dr.Avionics]

do the math, with the fuel prices the way they are - we can't make money

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

Yes for USA320Pilot no for all other pilots.

He deserves his own pay scales

 

[planejane]

I hear alot of talk about the pilots "bid sheet" and how unproductive it is. Can anyone explain how it works?

 

[BoeingBoy]

planejane,

First, how it works....

Open time (flying that doesn't have a pilot assigned, whether captain, F/O, or both) is available for a blockholder to "pick up" 2 days before the departure. This open time constitutes what is commonly called the bid sheet. Of course, the time is specific as to base, equipment, and seat - a F/O can't pick up captain time, Airbus pilot can't pick up 737 time, etc. Naturally, open time that isn't picked up by a blockholder goes to the reserve pilots.

Now to productivity...

Here it's something of a double-edged sword. Having the bid sheet allows pilots to "maximize" their time - if their awarded block is short of the monthly maximum, they can pick up time (or pick up a higher time trip and drop a lower paying trip). This improves productivity by getting more flying from the pilots.

The downside is the extra schedulers needed to administer the bid sheet. Supposedly, at some point it is going to be automated (computerized) but not yet - we either give a list of desired trips to the scheduler and call back to see which we got (if any) or they call us back when it's our turn in seniority and tell us what's available to pick from.

In my view, the bid sheet is only unproductive in the sense that the extra schedulers are needed (which automation will go a long way towards negating). There'll always be open time, it's only a question of who flies it - which in and of itself doesn't affect the pay for that time.

Jim

ps - this all concerns the working agreement as it now stands. In the past, there were situations when the bid sheet caused extra pay - primarily in what are called split-trips where one pilot flew part of a trip and another flew the rest.

 

[Dizel8]

"I feel between $65 with a top out of about $90 is fine, but it is not up to me to decide".

Fortunately, it is not your decision. $65-90 an hour for a pilot flying a 140+ seat aircraft is, pardon my french, ridiculous. Despite what you have read, and please do not see this as chest thumping, pilots are high skilled, well trained professionals. If you want to denigrate them to a pay scale less than a big city garbage man, then I truly think you have lost the plot.

If U management is unable to run a successful operation with the current pilotpay scale, then U needs to go away and cease to exist, as hard as that may be to some. Even though Frank managed to find pilots willing to cross the line, I doubt even the most avid supporter at U, say USA320Pilot, would work for your proposed payrates.

 

[Winglet]

I didn't realize it took so much more skill to fly an A320 than it does a 70 seat RJ. :down:
To be brutally honest, A320's skills are worth no more than an RJ pilot's. In fact, it usually takes more skill and stamina to fly an RJ with more flights per day and into smaller less well equipped airports. The anachronistic notion that the pilot should be paid more because the airplane he flies produces more revenue should be done away with. Pilot compensation has been artificially inflated for years . . . . . just not nearly as bad as the absurd levels that the executives give themselves.

What's really absurd is the wages of a commuter copilot . . . . usually less than $20k per year. However, those wages are like that because these young people will do anything to fly an airplane . . . . and the executives take full advantage of that . . . . and the senior pilots could care less as long as they're getting "theirs."

 

[mweiss]

The anachronistic notion that the pilot should be paid more because the airplane he flies produces more revenue should be done away with.

[post="244773"][/post]​

I disagree. While it is certainly true that the skills required in both cases are the same, the fact remains that the pilots of the larger aircraft are producing more ASMs. Not only are more Ss behind the cockpit, but the stage lengths tend to be longer, generating more Ms as well.

I don't think that it should necessarily follow the scale that it does, but there's nothing wrong with paying someone more for producing more, even if that larger production is simply a part of the job.

 

[Winglet]

How about if that equipment is LOSING more money than it's producing? I guess it follows then that the gate agents and loaders should be paid according the airplane they work, huh?

 

[jimntx]

I disagree. While it is certainly true that the skills required in both cases are the same, the fact remains that the pilots of the larger aircraft are producing more ASMs. Not only are more Ss behind the cockpit, but the stage lengths tend to be longer, generating more Ms as well.

I don't think that it should necessarily follow the scale that it does, but there's nothing wrong with paying someone more for producing more, even if that larger production is simply a part of the job.

[post="244776"][/post]​

But, Michael, the argument is based on skill. Flying a larger a/c is based on seniority alone. You may be the best pilot ever to walk the face of the earth, but if you haven't been at your airline for a number of years, you are not gonna get to fly the 777.

I'm not arguing for cutting pilot pay. As someone who depends on them on a daily basis, I want the boys and girls in the front room happy. The argument that bigger airplane automatically equals higher pay flies in the face of the argument that a number of pilots on this board have made that everyone else at the airline should be paid strictly according to skill--usually coupled with a trumpeting of good Republican "up by your own bootstraps" rhetoric.

If skill were the controlling factor then I would guess that the smaller a/c with less "Otto Pilot" help would pay more than a/c like the 777 that can almost fly itself (or so I'm told).

 

[mweiss]

But, Michael, the argument is based on skill.

I know it is (in part). However, when making the determination, I think it's considered backwards. You graduate to the bigger airplanes when you have more hours, because you're likely to be a more skilled pilot. Coincidental to this, you also produce more ASMs, so you get paid more because you produce more.

You may be the best pilot ever to walk the face of the earth, but if you haven't been at your airline for a number of years, you are not gonna get to fly the 777.

Read that sentence closely. That's not a "skill" argument; that's a seniority argument. If you had 25 years at EA before they folded, and you got hired by AA, your skill and three bucks buys you a Frappuccino. It's not the skill.