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DON'T GET REAMED.......

Like the SRP classification was mysteriously implemented before I hired on ... by the majority?

Yeah..Everyone you spoke to voted no...everyone!

Talk is cheap..

Another thing that people facing lay off have to decide on.......MEDICAL...
Medical ends after 30 days....then you can buy Cobra.....AIN"T CHEAP..

The bottom line is..when the fat lady has sung, each person needs to decide what is best for him/her...
There are numerous things that need to be decided on once the paycheck stops.....house, medical, families, kids, bills....

I don't to want say that I don't care, because I have the seniority and won't be affected by layoffs...I don't like this whole t/a deal and how the TWU is pushing it...it stinks.

Just putting myself in the shoes of those junior people facing a very difficult and uncertain future. And the fact that this t/a saves jobs is what ultimately what may decide this thing.

I don't like it one bit...But I sympathize with those who are looking to save their jobs.
 
Yeah..Everyone you spoke to voted no...everyone!

Talk is cheap..

Another thing that people facing lay off have to decide on.......MEDICAL...
Medical ends after 30 days....then you can buy Cobra.....AIN"T CHEAP..

The bottom line is..when the fat lady has sung, each person needs to decide what is best for him/her...
There are numerous things that need to be decided on once the paycheck stops.....house, medical, families, kids, bills....

I don't to want say that I don't care, because I have the seniority and won't be affected by layoffs...I don't like this whole t/a deal and how the TWU is pushing it...it stinks.

Just putting myself in the shoes of those junior people facing a very difficult and uncertain future. And the fact that this t/a saves jobs is what ultimately what may decide this thing.

I don't like it one bit...But I sympathize with those who are looking to save their jobs.
First off its not a TA, secondly explain how it saves jobs?
The ASM cap is gone.
System Protcetion is gone.
The cap on outsourcing went from 40%(50%) on March 22 to 35%(45%) on April24. Thats a dollar value, not headcount. So if they can outsouce checks to China or some other third world country the additional 35%(45% if they close Tasel) may allow the company to slash more than the 4500 that they proposed, not less. The agreement is to keep work on planes they are getting rid of, there is no agreement to get the work on new types of aircarft (Airbus).

The language now allows them to get rid of anyone, even YOU.
 
First off its not a TA, secondly explain how it saves jobs?
The ASM cap is gone.
System Protcetion is gone.
The cap on outsourcing went from 40%(50%) on March 22 to 35%(45%) on April24. Thats a dollar value, not headcount. So if they can outsouce checks to China or some other third world country the additional 35%(45% if they close Tasel) may allow the company to slash more than the 4500 that they proposed, not less. The agreement is to keep work on planes they are getting rid of, there is no agreement to get the work on new types of aircarft (Airbus).

The language now allows them to get rid of anyone, even YOU.

The point is that however it pans out,,,and I can read into it and beyond it...But when it says that jobs are saved,,I have to disagree with you, that because of the fear factor, people will vote yes. And unless the TWU is going to pay the bills, medical coverage mortgages, children tuition of those junior people, I doubt very much they care.
I hear what you are saying, but it will be very hard to convince some people otherwise.

Again, not disagreeing with you, but we are of a different generation.
 
It might help if the boys from the line would supportive of those in TUL. Every day they live in fear propagated by the very representative they pay. Show some leadership, because it is lacking in TUL.

It is one thing to state on this forum that the junior membership should vote no, try sitting across from these people looking them in the eye, telling them from a place of security, that voting no is best. I have no problem voting no and trying to explain why this is the best course. Continue to hammer TUL on this forum and see how many followers you can gain for the contract and for replacing the TWU.
 
The point is that however it pans out,,,and I can read into it and beyond it...But when it says that jobs are saved,,I have to disagree with you, that because of the fear factor, people will vote yes. And unless the TWU is going to pay the bills, medical coverage mortgages, children tuition of those junior people, I doubt very much they care.
I hear what you are saying, but it will be very hard to convince some people otherwise.

Again, not disagreeing with you, but we are of a different generation.
Correction, its man hours not dollar value.

I forgot to add the new station staffing formul as well;
Current operations from 1460 to 5475, thats 15 flights a day, the impact would be bigger on T-II but say goodbye to several clss II cities.
Restaff cities once staffed but not currently staffed and new cities when they get over 7300 flights a day, thats 20 a day, up from 1460 and 3650. LGA and ORD could be at risk because there are no caps on Eagle, so if they strike a deal with the APA to fly bigger eagles they could keep 20 AA planes on their heaviest routes and have Eagle do all the maintenance. Why do you think they added 15% of Line Maint, they could even do Bcks, Icks, PS checks etc.

AA complains that competitors do not have caps on Regional flying but I dont know of any competitors who own and operate a paralell airline either.

I assume that you've been here a few contract cycles, how many times have we heard the claim that "Jobs were saved" when in fact all they did was make ALL the jobs worse? They cut the heads anyway. The company knows MRO capacity is tight, admitted that they would have to pay a premium because of that, in other words the savings would likely be neglible, they pushed the committee towards the "saving jobs" aspect by how they valued things, in other words very little value in outsourcing, we would have had to outsource the entire headcount to reach the number, (how could that be?) if there were no union here they would not have sought anything different than what they want you to vote on, which according to Sharon Levines article is what they would impose, not the March 22 term sheet that the company says they will ask the court to impose.

We know there are going to be job losses because they will likely be sending the 777 and 767 fleet overseas and closing AFW, just how many remains to be seen. Shedding mechanics at this point in time is a foolish move as mechanics are finally becoming scarce, with the MROs being the hardest hit. They may not require A&Ps but the work still requires a certain degree of mechanical aptitude and other industries have more to offer. The MD-80 and 737 fleets arent as cost effective to outsource overseas. Those fleets are staying, but there is no language for the Airbus , so as the MD-80s are ditched to the desert the jobs that go with them will probably also go because there are plenty of places that do Airbus'. Still at that point large scale RIFs are unlikely as attrition will likley increase as the average age of the workforce climbs.
 
I would imagine that if this is so, there will be others shown the door long before me including YOU!
Exactly, thats why I'm voting NO and not trying to spread fear like you. Here in NY if you lose your job your kids can get coverage pretty cheaply. I dont know what other states have.

There is no monthly premium for families whose income is less than 1.6 times the poverty level. That's about $570 a week for a three-person family, about $687 a week for a family of four. Families with somewhat higher incomes pay a monthly premium of $9, $15, $30, $45, or $60 per child per month, depending on their income and family size. For larger families, the monthly fee is capped at three children. If the family's income is more than 4 times the poverty level, they pay the full monthly premium charged by the health plan. There are no co-payments for services under Child Health Plus, so you don't have to pay anything when your child receives care through these plans.

To see whether you would have to pay a premium for coverage, consult the Child Health Plus eligibility tables

At our wages many of us could qualify now,(depending on how many kids you have), by the end of this contract it may be cheaper to OPT out of AA benefits completely and pay the state. I'm going to look a little closer, the "No deductible No-copay" factor may make it worthwhile.

Great huh? We work for AA so we qualify for state assistance!! Where can I get some government cheese?

http://www.health.ny.gov/health_care/child_health_plus/
 
Wall Street should know that there is not labor peace with AA's mechanics, make AA earn it !!!!

I think every employee understands the position we are in, we just want a fair deal. Give us industry standards.
 
Criteria for Rejection.

(1) The debtor must make a proposal to modify the CBA or obtain concessions from the union;

DONE put a check there

(2) The debtor’s proposal must be based on the most complete and reliable information available at the time the proposal is made;

Questionable, in that based on their information the companys proposal is not required for the company to achieve profitability, it may be necissary to achieve the level of profitability that the company seeks ($1.75 billion vs $3bilion) but is that the intended purpose of C-11?

(3) The proposal must be necessary to the debtor’s reorganization;

Once again, "Reorganization" must be defined, does it mean profitability to the extent they can avoid liquidation or any level of profitibility that the debtor seeks? , I asssumed that the intent of C-11 is that its employed as the only alternative to C-7 not to any arbitrary level of profitabilty, in this case 17%. If I'm wrong then is there really any reason fwhy a company would not file BK when doing so can give you such a huge advantage over competitors? Perhaps the Bankruptcy Court Judges in NY look to allow such usage as a means to provide job security for themselves?

(4) The proposal must treat fairly and equitably creditors, the debtor and all other affected parties; and

In the 2003 reorganization the company established the standard of fair and equitable as a measure that considers our standing among our peers, that was why management did not take the cuts union employees took, because the company determined that pay at AA lagged the industry for management. The same standard should apply now that we are at the bottom of the industry.

(5) The debtor must provide the union with relevant information as is necessary to evaluate the proposal.



After making a proposal and before the hearing:

(6) The debtor must meet at reasonable times with the union; and

(7) The debtor must negotiate in good faith with the union in an attempt to reach mutually satisfactory modifications of the CBA.

The companys standard reply during this process was "Thats our proposal." In other words take it or leave it.

After the above steps are satisfied, courts have the authority to grant a rejection motion only if:

(8) The union has refused to accept the debtor’s proposal without good cause; and

We have good cause for rejection;
The company proposal would lock is into concession for six years that are substandard to the rest of the industry in every measure.
The companys proposal is not required for the company to achieve even the highest level of profitability in the industry
We should not be required to agree to terms that are so drastic just so AA can achieve a level of profitability thats in excess of the other top seven carriers-combined
.



(9) The balance of the equities clearly favors rejection of the CBA.

AA currently enjoys the lowest hourly average compensation rates for mechanics in the industry. The current contract includes even lower waged mechanics in the bases, which in talks the union was willing to expand, further reducing avergae hourly rate. In negotiations the Union was agreeable to freezing the pension, reducing costs, expanding the amount of outsoucing permitted to levels that competitors have, which may or may not reduce costs but its what the company sought, eliminating company paid retiree medical . Thes three items are the only substantial areas of the contract where AA did not have an advantage over most competitors. Currently TWU mechanics at all steps less than 30 years have one week less paid vacation, seven less paid sick days, five less paid Holidays and the rate paid to work the Holidays is at least half the rate paid at other carriers (1.5x vs 2x or 2.5X) In addition the company is demanding that current workers who are participants in the Retiree Medical Prefunding Trust agree to turn over half the value of the trust to the company and the 1114 committee. Active workers would likely lose as much as $50,000 that was intended to be set aside for these individuals to purchase alternate in the event of a Bankruptcy and termination of the Retiree Medical Plan. Clearly this demand is excessive, unprecidented in Bankruptcy settlements, which tend to grant some sort of equity or financial incentive instead of an additional financial penalty. During the course of negotiations the company representative even described the offer as "ridiculously bad". Clearly if the company describes the offer in such a way the workers have good cause for rejection .



One last thing you may want to consider before voting yes and denying rejecting the opportunity to even bring our story before the Judge, read this;

http://www.abiworld.org/committees/newsletters/pensionsbenefits/vol2num3/Decisions.html


"Judge Gropper’s decision makes clear that it is the terms of the last tentative agreement or if there is none, the debtor’s last proposal, that the debtor may impose."

So while you may be shown a side by side of what the company included with their motion, it is according to Sharon Leveine, what the company last offered that would be imposed, in other words the April 26 terms, not the March 22. So really they only reason to vote yes is that you want what you see for the next six years. If it gets voted down that the worst they can impose anyway but we could still negotiate.

If you look at the other agreements , from airlines that filed with much less than $4 billion and had much less ambitous plans as far as annual profits ($3billion), workers were at least given things to soften the financial impact of the concessions, in the NWA case they were given $182 million in unsecured claims, in UAL they were given Convertible Notes and shares of the new company, AA has offered none of that, in fact they want us to turn over half our Prefunding Trust for them to take to a committee that has no standing to claim any of those funds.
Very well said Bob.Exactly what I am trying to get through to the guys at ORD. We need this document in every breakroom,discussed by every crew.If we cannot get together here and at least get this issue to the judge what kind of work group are we? Sheep?We need to unite as a group and show some courage. fight for our careers.If we lack the courage to stand up for ourselves, we truly deserve what's coming to us.Think.Don't let FEAR and scare tactics prevent you from standing up for what is right.Discuss this with your crew mates. show the legal precedents.Our only leverage is to force further negotiations and threaten chapter 11 exit.NO airline has EVER exited chapter 11 with an imposed contract.WE ARE NOT HELPLESS.
 
US never moved of their position in our Section 1113C negotiations and the judge abrogated.
 
First off its not a TA, secondly explain how it saves jobs?
The ASM cap is gone.
System Protcetion is gone.
The cap on outsourcing went from 40%(50%) on March 22 to 35%(45%) on April24. Thats a dollar value, not headcount. So if they can outsouce checks to China or some other third world country the additional 35%(45% if they close Tasel) may allow the company to slash more than the 4500 that they proposed, not less. The agreement is to keep work on planes they are getting rid of, there is no agreement to get the work on new types of aircarft (Airbus).

The language now allows them to get rid of anyone, even YOU.
A labor lawyer I spoke to stated that it is an agreement the union is bringing to the membership for a ratification vote.Thus making it a TA in the eyes of the law
 
It might help if the boys from the line would supportive of those in TUL. Every day they live in fear propagated by the very representative they pay. Show some leadership, because it is lacking in TUL.

It is one thing to state on this forum that the junior membership should vote no, try sitting across from these people looking them in the eye, telling them from a place of security, that voting no is best. I have no problem voting no and trying to explain why this is the best course. Continue to hammer TUL on this forum and see how many followers you can gain for the contract and for replacing the TWU.
I got your back Buck. We are fighting the same battle, the same enemies.I refuse to tolerate the line vs.base debate if TUL closes or downsizes many line AMTs are out the door to senior tul people.I stress this to my crewmates. same seniority list. we either win or lose together.
 
I got your back Buck. We are fighting the same battle, the same enemies.I refuse to tolerate the line vs.base debate if TUL closes or downsizes many line AMTs are out the door to senior tul people.I stress this to my crewmates. same seniority list. we either win or lose together.
Exactly.
 
Don't know if Jim Little can look at the results of the vote as it happens but just in case I will be voting NO late in the time frame so he cannot bring his minions to the floor with negative propaganda!!!
 
I will just vote NO and wait patiently for AA to go Ch.7. Then move on. After they have stolen our pensions , I hope Horton and his cronies burn in hell. They dont even have a business plan other than to rape the employees.
 
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