DON'T GET REAMED.......

[toroshark]

I will just vote NO and wait patiently for AA to go Ch.7. Then move on. After they have stolen our pensions , I hope Horton and his cronies burn in hell. They dont even have a business plan other than to rape the employees.

 

[Zom JFK]

Don't know if Jim Little can look at the results of the vote as it happens but just in case I will be voting NO late in the time frame so he cannot bring his minions to the floor with negative propaganda!!!

Jim Little already knows the outcome of the "vote" and so does the company. Its an electronic vote thats obviously fixed just like it was in 2003. Do you really think the twu is going to spend money staying in court for YOU? The last thing they are going to spend their money on is the membership.

 

[strikeforce]

let's not forget that NOTHING in the LBO prevents the company from simply laying off workers. What prevents the company from reducing the number of workers per dock, or per check??? They can go to the FAA and lower the man-hours per check. Who says an "A" check takes 16 man hours......is it the FAA or AA??? Therefore, the 35% of total man-hours can be manipulated by the company with the help of the FAA. Correct me if I'm wrong??

 

[Buck]

Here at TUL we have been told that the 737 group is going to petition the FAA to extend the time between overhauls on the C checks for the 737G & 737F series aircraft. If granted,Light C's will be out for 31 months and the Heavy to 10 years?

 

[amtide]

AMT check list

____ VOTE NO

____ Sign a card for better representation

 

[strikeforce]

Here at TUL we have been told that the 737 group is going to petition the FAA to extend the time between overhauls on the C checks for the 737G & 737F series aircraft. If granted,Light C's will be out for 31 months and the Heavy to 10 years?

There you go Buck.....AA is way ahead of me. AA controls all the numbers and man-hours. 35% is just a number. Remember, the union has to rely on the company to provide accurate manpower numbers. At this point, I don't trust anything the company provides us.

 

[Overspeed]

One last thing you may want to consider before voting yes and denying rejecting the opportunity to even bring our story before the Judge, read this;

http://www.abiworld.org/committees/newsletters/pensionsbenefits/vol2num3/Decisions.html


"Judge Gropper’s decision makes clear that it is the terms of the last tentative agreement or if there is none, the debtor’s last proposal, that the debtor may impose."

Cherry picking again? I posted this on another topic but you really should discuss with Ms. Levine before you post old info.

First the problem with basing your opinion on articles and law that is five years old is cherry picking and you need to use more current information. Since the Northwest case by Bankruptcy Judge Gropper, other cases have come down, most importantly a District Court decision which is the higher court which reviews Bankruptcy Court decisions. Again,in the Frontier Airlines case in 2009 the Court ruled that “Under the regime established by Section 1113 proposals and supporting proposals made by a party after the rejection hearing has begun may not form the basis for concluding whether the 1113 standard has been satisfied except, perhaps, where the parties expressly agree they may be considered.” The Company’s ask was made before the rejection hearing began; the proposals which became the LBO were made after the hearing began. There was no agreement to consider the LBO and, in fact, AA said its proposals were without prejudice to its position in the Bankrupcty Court. The LBO is not even admissible to decide what level of concessions the Company under 1113 if our contract is rejected. You can spin it whatever way you want, but a later case from a higher court is obviously the controlling authority. Several people who were present in court told me that Judge Lane specifically mentioned Frontier Airlines as the controlling case, but if you want to assume they are liars until proven otherwise, I will post the transcript when it becomes available. In the meantime, if the LBO is rejected and, as is almost inevitable, the contracts of all three unions are then rejected by the Court we will see which one of us is right. But, it doesn’t matter, because if the prehearing “ask” is imposed rather than the LBO, you will blame the TWU for that too.

And from the fighting union...AMFA!

Agreed But FAR From Happy About It -- AMFA Ratifies Tentative Agreement with UAL
Backs Against The Wall?
The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) tells ANN that its members working at United Airlines ratified the tentative contract agreement with the company through electronic balloting. Details will be forthcoming.

According to AMFA National Director O.V. Delle-Femine, "Our members accepted this agreement through democratic voting. Our choice was to consent to concessions from the company or risk even worse terms imposed by the bankruptcy judge, who has shown a proclivity to agree to company demands. The bankruptcy laws, the court system and federal agencies like the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation are strongly biased in favor of the large airline corporations. Thanks to Congress, these laws show little concern for average workers."

AMFA's craft union represents aircraft maintenance technicians and related support personnel at Alaska Airlines, ATA, Horizon Airlines, Independence Airlines, Mesaba Airlines, Northwest Airlines, Southwest Airlines and United Airlines.

 

[Buck]

There you go Buck.....AA is way ahead of me. AA controls all the numbers and man-hours. 35% is just a number. Remember, the union has to rely on the company to provide accurate manpower numbers. At this point, I don't trust anything the company provides us.

Remember this has to be proposed to the FAA. It is not a sure thing.

 

[vaccumtube]

Unfortunately I think this SORRY contract proposal will pass in Tulsa. The people ready to retire are going to take the 39K and the low seniority people will vote yes because of the fear of losing their job.I hope I'm very wrong but Tulsa has a long history of voting the union position on a contract regardless of how bad it is. BTW, with no A320 work coming to AA M&E, THE B737 fleet time intervals between Heavy Checks increased from 6 years to 8 & 10 years, and ALL the MD80's retired by summer of 2014, and the B757's outsourced, there will be a LOT MORE LAYOFFS in the next 2 years than the Company /Union is telling you.

 

[Tex-Mech]

Again,in the Frontier Airlines case in 2009 the Court ruled that “Under the regime established by Section 1113 proposals and supporting proposals made by a party after the rejection hearing has begun may not form the basis for concluding whether the 1113 standard has been satisfied except, perhaps, where the parties expressly agree they may be considered.”

You may want to read the Frontier docket so you can see that the Teamster's contract was rejected November 1, 2008 and the final and sixth proposal (proposed on October 31, 2008) from Frontier was imposed until a consensual agreement could replace it.

Of course you did leave out the fact that the rejection order was overturned on appeal in July 2009, and shortly thereafter reached an agreement that was ratified.

http://dm.epiq11.com/FAH/Document

The 1113 Proceeding is dismissed with prejudice, and Frontier has
dismissed with prejudice its appeal filed in the United States Court of Appeals for the
Second Circuit, Case No. 09-cv-00343-PKC.

 

[Overspeed]

You may want to read the Frontier docket so you can see that the Teamster's contract was rejected November 1, 2008 and the final and sixth proposal (proposed on October 31, 2008) from Frontier was imposed until a consensual agreement could replace it.

Of course you did leave out the fact that the rejection order was overturned on appeal in July 2009, and shortly thereafter reached an agreement that was ratified.

http://dm.epiq11.com/FAH/Document

Right. The CBA was rejected like has been said and the union gets to keep talking. Remember, the "ask" gets imposed during that time. How are you going to get all that work back after its gone?

And Frontier had how much in-house overhaul capacity?

Once Bob gets his wish of more overhaul being outsourced I would expect it would be a lot less costly for AA to give 5,000 to 6,000 a raise to $38 and hour. I guess Bob has no problem with walking on top of the bodies of 4,300 RIF'd workers to get his geo pay.

 

[Buck]

Don't give these people the impression that there is a possibility of $38/HR coming out of this either way.

 

[Overspeed]

Don't give these people the impression that there is a possibility of $38/HR coming out of this either way.

Sorry...

 

[strikeforce]

Right. The CBA was rejected like has been said and the union gets to keep talking. Remember, the "ask" gets imposed during that time. How are you going to get all that work back after its gone?

And Frontier had how much in-house overhaul capacity?

Once Bob gets his wish of more overhaul being outsourced I would expect it would be a lot less costly for AA to give 5,000 to 6,000 a raise to $38 and hour. I guess Bob has no problem with walking on top of the bodies of 4,300 RIF'd workers to get his geo pay.

dues collectors save jobs at the expense of pay & benefits......and craft unions enhance pay & benefits for the one's remaining, pick one?

 

[BigMac]

It might help if the boys from the line would supportive of those in TUL. Every day they live in fear propagated by the very representative they pay. Show some leadership, because it is lacking in TUL.

It is one thing to state on this forum that the junior membership should vote no, try sitting across from these people looking them in the eye, telling them from a place of security, that voting no is best. I have no problem voting no and trying to explain why this is the best course. Continue to hammer TUL on this forum and see how many followers you can gain for the contract and for replacing the TWU.

And likewise. We @ TUL should be supporting the line. I got into a conversation with two inspectors yesterday that turned into them getting pi$$ed with me for wanting to vote no. They said if I voted no...it would screw them over. Their reasoning was the layoffs wouldn't touch them therefore they said a no vote would negatively affect them. I talked til I was blue in the face to no avail. I believe I made two enemies for life...which was not my intentions.