EAST saves West's BUTT today!

[UWCactus]

700 and Barbie are correct. This was a scope violation. You all better pay attention to the details of your contracts, because the chances are it will happen to you. This is why we have a union and a contract. The company needs to get its %#&^ together and fast. Christmas happens every year, and they still screw it up. I am very happy that our council 66 filed this grievance. They did the right thing.

If this is a scope violation...as you are so confident about...lets see some details on the following to back up your argument:

Explain exactly how if US East operated a flight from PHX-LAX-PHX, that takes away block time from the domicile and becomes a violation?>

 

[EricLv2Fish]

Let's see...aircraft has maintenance problems. Aircraft can't fly it's scheduled flight. Flight crew get's paid for not flying aircraft. Passengers get to where they were going on our airline and a UNION files a GREIVANCE! Give me a break. I agree with Bob. If the contract is going to be analyzed with a microscope we will take our eyes off the prize and that is our customers. Contracts are not made to be flexible, but common sense should tell us there is a certain degree of flexibility needed in our industry. Pick your battles. Every battle is not worth fighting. IMO this one, even though a violation may have occurred, should have been let go. Flight crew got paid for not working!

 

[barbeetantrums]

700 and Barbie are correct. This was a scope violation. You all better pay attention to the details of your contracts, because the chances are it will happen to you. This is why we have a union and a contract. The company needs to get its %#&^ together and fast. Christmas happens every year, and they still screw it up. I am very happy that our council 66 filed this grievance. They did the right thing.

Marry me.

 

[700UW]

You non-union, anti-union, people have no clue.

Just like it was ok to let the company farmout the airbus.

The company has agreed to what is in the CBAs, they have to live buy it, they violate they must pay for it, that is the only way the company learns not to break the very contracts they agreed too.

You might not like it, but too damn bad.

 

[HPGUY]

I know I will be lynched for this but here is my viewpoint:

A plane broke in PHX so a US (east, to be politically correct) plane was used as a substitute. US (east) crews were used to fly this route. Well, they flew this route and were paid to fly this route. Meanwhile, HP crews went nowhere and, thusly, were not paid as they were not flying. Because the aircraft was broken and there were no spares, flight crews were not able to fly and make money which they need to feed themselves and pay rent or mortgage. It is not the fault of the HP crews that the aircraft was broken and there were no spares. This is a SCOPE violation and the crews should be paid for missed time. This is cut and dry and as clear as the nose on your face. -_-

This is incorrect. US West lineholders are paid for their scheduled trips or what they actually fly which ever is greater. So if their flights cancelled then they're still paid. Reserves get a 70hr monthly guaranteed so if their trips cancels then they're not losing anything.

Plus US west cancelled the flights. US East decided to operate and extra section to pick up our customers. I don't see a breech in scope.

Thanks
Andy

 

[barbeetantrums]

You non-union, anti-union, people have no clue.

Just like it was ok to let the company farmout the airbus.

The company has agreed to what is in the CBAs, they have to live buy it, they violate they must pay for it, that is the only way the company learns not to break the very contracts they agreed too.

You might not like it, but too damn bad.

It's too bad that the workers can't pick and choose what to willfully violate in its contract. We have a 30 minute lunch break in our CBA. I'd like to take at least 2 hours with a nap time to properly digest the food before throwing bags. America West uniforms always seem to cause considerable chafing. I'd like to wear my street clothes as they are more comfortable. On the day before or after my weekend, I would like to call in sick so I can have a 3 day weekend. Signing out of work an hour or so before my off-time would be grand.

I'm sure the company wouldn't mind any of this. The contract violates all laws of common sense. Why would anyone wear a uniform if it chafes?

 

[HPGUY]

That's great assuming the FAs will be paid too. Such a quick reponse indicates the company didn't try to get out of paying them?

US West Pilots and FAs are always pay protected for cancelled flights.

 

[allunionsdeceive]

You non-union, anti-union, people have no clue.

Just like it was ok to let the company farmout the airbus.

The company has agreed to what is in the CBAs, they have to live buy it, they violate they must pay for it, that is the only way the company learns not to break the very contracts they agreed too.

You might not like it, but too damn bad.

You do not know the facts. as always. this is not a violation. union will loose. it is not the same as the airbus out sourcing that was a violation. keep you union kissing down till you know the fact.
us east and us west and other airline do this all the time and just because we all fall under the us group umbrella means nothing

 

[allunionsdeceive]

Perhaps a more flexible approach may have served you better? Seems to have worked out more favorably for the AFA!

When you abandon the customer over this sillyness you just lose my support. I negotiated multimillion dollar outsourcing contracts and if eveytime one side or the other technically violated the agreement I got an extra dollar of commission I'd be retired. In EVERY normal business there is some give and take. In the end you do what makes business sense no matter what the contract says. That's the way the real world works and that's why union membership is in steep decline, failure to recognise the economic realities of the day.

Can ANYONE honestly say it would have made good business sense to strand 130+ customers right before a holiday when there existed a way to get them to their destinations relatively on time?

PS: I can't help but notice that the union apologists refuse to comment on the customer satisfaction aspect or the SWA approach to doing business regarding this incident. I guess to you the customer doesn't matter, so perhaps I should take my 123 segments to another carrier in 2006?

PSS: Did you ever stop and think that this issue will "Go Away" when there is one operating certificate?

Do not let these few self serving people loose your faith in the real people working. we (as us west and us east) know we need and appreciate the costumer

 

[soc-hpjester]

And when will ALPA step in if in fact there is a scope violation ? You can't violate scope under seperate ops. certs. End of story.

 

[allunionsdeceive]

And when will ALPA step in if in fact there is a scope violation ? You can't violate scope under seperate ops. certs. End of story.

Alpa is smarter than AFA. they know that there was no violation.
end of story

 

[MarkMyWords]

You non-union, anti-union, people have no clue.

Just like it was ok to let the company farmout the airbus.

The company has agreed to what is in the CBAs, they have to live buy it, they violate they must pay for it, that is the only way the company learns not to break the very contracts they agreed too.

You might not like it, but too damn bad.

700

You still haven't shown me the violation.....just because you say it, doesn't mean it is true.

Bob...

The extra sections provided protection for over 1500 customers....not 130.

 

[DOODY]

After reading all the rants, here is a summary of where we are:

Summary:

1. Flight was operated as a US Extra Section, not an HP Flight number or flight, which is NOT a violation of scope. US metal and US crew.
If Delta cancels a PHL-ATL flight and we put on an extra section, Delta rules them over to us. What is the difference?
2. HP Crew was paid per their contracts, yes? If it is part of the F/A contract, then they get paid. If not, they don't. Simple as that.
2. Passengers made it to their destinations HAPPY.
3. NO Bad Press from what could have been a debacle. (which we really need, huh?

Looks cut and dry - no scope issue here --

Yet here we have 11 pages on this. Let's stop the bickering and work together. Pick your battles guys.

My Union brother, 700-- Admit it. It isn't a violation. Tis the season to be jolly, 700. Feel the XMAS spirit, my brother.


Yours truly,

Doody Claus














How does it go:

"It's like beating a DEAD horse."

 

[DOODY]

Merry Christmas to you too Doody Claus

Piney and everybody,

Merry Christmas to all and to all an extra section!!

Ha! Ha! Ha!

Doody Claus

 

[ClearedToPush]

I would think the company would dot their i's and cross their t's extra carefully regarding this type of operations considering the issues surrounding the FA's and Pilots and the merger....