Fa Shortage For The Holidays?

[PITbull]

Bear,

That is were you are wrong. You have no idea what is going on inside U. The f/as group are about to witness another furlough in Janaury. These policies have broken the "spirit" of the best of the best. Spritis are broken, and to have to live with a "time balance" reserve system that can't break your guarantee to support your family, furloughs in January and round #3 concessions , signs are every where that folks have given up. I have been saying this for months on end, and now you are seeing the manifestation of it. I have never implied or said folks have a right to be defiant or break rules. However, you can see, the policies, as punitive as they have become, only worsens the problem. So now what, make them more harsh? To what end?

There is "labor unrest" at U, and to just "will it" to change, will NOT produce that desired change. Management can "fire" all of us for this apathy, if they choose. Managment has left the labor/union leadership out of the equation to look for better solutions together. How can us elicit change in behavior if you have no input and assistance from the group to find positive resolution.

AFA offered ideas, many not on this public board, because that is what this is, just a public board. Management has not responded. Only "hot air" that they are looking into resolution, blah, blah, blah....

I am not trying to win support from people that are not on the inside. They can share an opinion, but I am not intersted in maintaining some "credibility" with folks who can't make a difference on the Corporate level for employees. Its our issue, we will deal with it.

Harsh, punitive policies don't work for any company. You can't beat someone into submission. Just creates a hostile environment. There are other ways to create postive results with positive, incentivized policies.

Hey, here is a novel idea....why not try and develop positive policies with Labor's input??? Nah, never mind.

 

[N628AU]

PitBull,

I agree the policies suck, are inane, draconian, and should go! The problem is, abuse of sick leave policies, such as a sudden spike of sick calls in a two week stretch around a holiday, create them.

As for me infecting people I work with, I am usually more apt to being infected by people I work with than the other way around. I don't get sick becasue I take precautions. That $2 box of alcohol swabs goes a long way when I don't get sick because I wipe stuff down that co-workers use when I am not around.

I have two questions for you:

(1) Would you support a change to rolling all sick time and vacation time together into PDOs, to eliminate the need for many to abuse the sick time system?

(2) If you knew someone was abusing the system, would you call them on it, or look the other way in a show of solidarity (notice I did not say rat them out to management)?

 

[MarkMyWords]

Please don't stereotype all F/A's that work for US as being useless. A lot of us worked over Christmas, and it wasn't the first time either. Most of us know, that we would have to work on Holidays and be away from our families when we took this job. In 15 years, I've probably spent 12 of those years working directly on the Holidays. Am I happy about doing it? Absolutely not, but I know it's my job and I've got to go to work! And for all the F/A's that blatantly called in sick over the Holidays....I sure hope that you were legitimately sick! That really was appalling to see the reserve lists with all the sick calls going down the line like that! I'm on RSV too....you know what folks, it's your job, if you don't like it, step aside, there are MANY on furlough that want their jobs back! And I do and always have given my utmost respect to Agents for dealing with situations like these!

Whatnow -

It wasn't my intention to stereotype the entire department and if that is the way it came across, I am sorry. I do have a lot of respect for the job that you do and the issues you face. What I don't agree with is the sick call levels and hearing people screaming how short staffed we are. Watching sick call levels increase 2-3 times the normal level is appalling, but to listen to someone try to rationalize and make excuses for it ticks me off.

Thank you for coming to work and doing your part. I am in the same boat as you are. I have 17 years with the company and have only had 1 Christmas day at home, so I don't have the luxury of having the holidays off either. Like you, I would love to be home for the holidays, but I have a job to do and it can't always happen that way.

 

[PITbull]

N6,

Unfortunately you don't know me. And after all the posting I've done, it appears that there are some that think I'm a liar. Which is amazing to me.

I never support fraud. I can spot it the first sentence from someones mouth. However, you seem to think that there was a huge abusive sick situation AND THEN, U made policies as a response. That was not the case. And contrary to what some on here post in %, who i can assure you have no accurate information, and who more than likely got it from mangment to justify management's cause, mangement was looking o make sure policies were in place in order not to have ANY employee that has illness, be a cost to the corporation. I am sorry, we had the same sick % as most carriers. Nothing out of the ordinary UNTIL, the new reserve system took effect in Nov. Folks have just given up. They don't want to sacrifice anymore of themselves or their families on a holiday, which is the most ciritical time for our business. I wrote to everyone on here about the "apathy" that has set in, and now managment claims "foul" when it manifests itself in the most ciritical period.

Well, I sorry, I can not defend managment's lack of responsiveness to elevate morale, and then I can't support illegal sick. But, I happen to me on the "inside" of these issues, and I can speak to them VS, those who only make assumptions by looking on the "surface" of the issue.

 

[MarkMyWords]

With all due respect, and your point is?

That is what comes with the job. Just like the poor saps out on the ramp get soaked to the bone in 35 degree rain, while others stay at least covered, if not warm.

Pitbull is taking a beating here because the issues are not understood at all. I have a few fellow mechanic friends who are married to F/A's and this new sick policy is not only ridiculous but totally disregards the human element. Walk a mile in the F/A shoes and truly understand it before you post on something you only believe you understand. It’s real easy to sit on the sidelines and yell foul when you’re not the one getting sh---t on!

Cav -

I never said I agree with the sick penalties, but you have to agree that a spike in sick calls 2-3 times the norm, only to return to normal 2 days after the holiday is total BS.

Their new policies are no different then policies that you and I live with. You are just as likely to get sick being in the elements as they are being in the cabin. Why should their sick policy be any different then you and I?

 

[BoeingBoy]

N628AU,

I think you have a little misunderstanding about the way sick time and vacation is paid for flight crew as opposed to other employees.

For pretty much all other employees, a day of either sick or vacation is worth 8 hours. A week off of either sick or vacation is worth 40 hours. You need to do nothing to receive the same paycheck as you would have received without sick or vacation time.

For pilots, vacation is worth 3:45 per day as long as at least 7 days in a row are taken. If less than 7 days, vacation pays 2:50 per day. Our trips average at least 5:00 per day. So I can have 7 days of vacation and end up having to work extra to make up the lost time.

For example, say I bid 7 days of vacation in June (26:15 vacation pay). When the June schedule comes out, I may have 42 hours of flying time that I have to drop because of the vacation (if a trip touches vacation it is dropped). Now I have to try to pick up time to bring my pay back up.

Likewise, sick time is different. If I call in sick for a 4 day trip, I get sick pay for the hours that trip paid minus the 5 hour sick penalty. To bring my monthly pay back up to where it would have been if I hadn't been sick, I have to pick up as much time as that 4 day trip had in it. Of course, then I have used no sick time, since I "flew it back".

I guess using PDO's instead of sick and vacation days could work in theory, but it is a lot more complex for flight crews than other workers.

Jim

 

[Whatnow?]

I never support fraud. I can spot it the first sentene from someones mouth. However, you seem to think that there was a huge abusive sick situation AND THEN, U policies. That was not the case. And contrary to what some on here post in %, who i can assure you have no accurate information, and who more than likely got it from mangment to justify management's cause, mangement was looking o make sure policies were in place in order not to have ANY employee that has illness, be a cost to the corporation. I am sorry, we had the same sick % as most carriers. Nothing out of the ordinary UNTIL, the new reserve system took effect in Nov. Folks have just given up. They don't want to sacrifice anymore of themselves or their families on a holiday, which is the most ciritical time for our business. I wrote to everyone on here about the "apathy" that has set in, and now managment claims "foul" when it manifests itself in the most ciritical period.

Pitbull,

What kind of repercussions will come out of this "sick out", especially AFTER all the new policies regarding sick occurrences were put into place last week? Do all the F/A's who participated in this have to produce legitimate RX notes regardless of the amount of sick calls they have? Or is it something that will brushed aside with a slap on the hand? If I'm not mistaking, a letter was sent to most of us (via CBS from AFA-PHL) in PHL & PHW warning us not to participate in a so called "sick out". Seems as though scheduling was called by a number of anonymous F/A's before Christmas, warning that many F/A's would be participating in that act. From the looks of it, it was the F/A's in PIT that mostly participated in calling in sick on Christmas Day. I am in PHW, and didn't know anything about it. Have there also been warnings of the same thing happening again on New Years Eve?

 

[PITbull]

N628AU,

I think you have a little misunderstanding about the way sick time and vacation is paid for flight crew as opposed to other employees.

For pretty much all other employees, a day of either sick or vacation is worth 8 hours. A week off of either sick or vacation is worth 40 hours. You need to do nothing to receive the same paycheck as you would have received without sick or vacation time.

For pilots, vacation is worth 3:45 per day as long as at least 7 days in a row are taken. If less than 7 days, vacation pays 2:50 per day. Our trips average at least 5:00 per day. So I can have 7 days of vacation and end up having to work extra to make up the lost time.

For example, say I bid 7 days of vacation in June (26:15 vacation pay). When the June schedule comes out, I may have 42 hours of flying time that I have to drop because of the vacation (if a trip touches vacation it is dropped). Now I have to try to pick up time to bring my pay back up.

Likewise, sick time is different. If I call in sick for a 4 day trip, I get sick pay for the hours that trip paid minus the 5 hour sick penalty. To bring my monthly pay back up to where it would have been if I hadn't been sick, I have to pick up as much time as that 4 day trip had in it. Of course, then I have used no sick time, since I "flew it back".

I guess using PDO's instead of sick and vacation days could work in theory, but it is a lot more complex for flight crews than other workers.

Jim

Thanks Boeing Boy.

Folks on here think that our sick is worth 8 hours of pay. Our average vac. day is worth only 3 hours of flight pay per day, and sick has penalties, so more often you are capped at not receiving the entire trip value.

 

[PITbull]

I don't know about any orgainized effort to have a sick out, but I do know that calls were up 50% from previous years.
Actually, most of the sick calls were in PHL, and also ITD. I don't know what management has planned to punish all f/as who called in sick. PIT Pres offered solutions starting on the 24th, and mangement appeared interested, and then it fizzled out.

I do know that mangement violated sec. and side letter L-13. The MEC will have to respond to that. Those sick calls that were not legitimate, will be handled appropriately. All f/as will have to provide a medical note according to sec. 8-4. If management requires you to get a note and you did not see a phys over the holiday (because no one has visiting hours over the holidays) management will have to pay for it IF you are under 5 sick occurences according to our contract. If you are over 5 sick calls, then it is considered excessive sick and you will be placed on a level of depednability according to the new policy. You will also have to pay for the phys. visit as per our contract.

 

[PITbull]

Thanks Boeing Boy.

Folks on here think that our sick is worth 8 hours of pay. Our average vac. day is worth only 3 hours of flight pay per day, and sick has penalties, so more often you are capped at not receiving the entire trip value.

Ok so change the numbers i my example to the actual number top of scales F/A's earn and multiply by 4 hours and you are very close to the example and even when you use the lower numbers with the higher sick rate you are talking 20 million!

If half of that was sick time abuse you're still talking 10 Million dollars. Want your people to be offered early retirement options? Sorry looks as if US already spent the money with some F/A's collectiing it as sick time. Ten Million would fund a lot of "early outs" but you abused it and your coworkers spent it

Bob,

You are full of it. We have pay penalities for sick in place. And since management told you so much, let them clue you in.

 

[Whatnow?]

I'm sure Monday will be a busy day in the Supervisory offices in all the bases! 😉

 

[PITbull]

I'm sure Monday will be a busy day in the Supervisory offices in all the bases! 😉

Hell, they don't have anything else to do. Labor leaders will be busy as well.

 

[Whatnow?]

Hell, they don't have anything else to do. Labor leaders will be busy as well.

😀 Forgot about all the phone calls that local LEC will be getting after hearing from supervisors!

 

[MarkMyWords]

PitBull -

You still haven't answered my questions:

how is it we are short staffed again?

Is it managements fault that XXX number of employees called in sick instead of coming to work like they are supposed to?

Should we plan for 500 call offs on Christmas next year?

What would you suggest the company do to combat the sick call spike?

What did the AFA PIT President suggest?

How do either of you account for the spike in call offs and do you both support or condemn these call offs?

what are the numbers that you have for sick calls on Christmas Day? (If I am a liar - then prove me wrong.)

So, according to your statements, because the employee group is feeling battered and demoralized, that they have had a company friendly/employee unfriendly reserve system forced upon them and because they are "sick" for the 3 days around the holiday, that we should just look the other way this year. And what happens next year? Should we just close the doors for the day so that we can all have the day off? No matter what fluff you throw out here to try and rationalize people calling in sick on the holiday - when they aren't sick - you are just as WRONG as they are.

 

[PITbull]

Call me handsome, so I can clue you in. 😉


Just a thought, do you have any ability to think out of the box?????? Nah, did n't think so, neither did mangement who make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.
But, just think, if someone actually did think up incentives to elevate morale, then YOU wouldn't have anyone to bash, now would you?