Fa Shortage For The Holidays?

[MarkMyWords]

PitBull -

So your plan or the plan of the PIT AFA Pres is to create a program that is geared toward one day......what about the other 364? What happens on other notorious sick days.....Haloween, Super Bowl, Valentines Day?

You may not like the time balancing reserve system, but you know what I saw this year? No leveling. In past years we would level reserves throughout the month of Dec. Wanna know how reserves got around the leveling process? They called in sick early in the month. held on to the sick claim until just before the holiday, then submitted the claim and called out of time just before Christmas. I saw it happen 100 times. Now we ensure that we have an even level of staffing throughout the month. Yes, we are currently OVERSTAFFED with F/A's and it makes compounds issues for the reserves, right now. There would be an easy answer to the problem, layoff several hundred reserves. It is not the system that is broken, it is the number of reserves we presently have. The issue of not making guarantee can be settled with a few hundred pink slips.

That being said....imagine if you will......Marketing elects to run with the rolling hub concept and increases aircraft utilization and productivity. Doing so creates additonal block holder positions.....meaning more blocke holders / less reserves.....and now more reserves break guarantee. Imagine we actually get the union leaders to sit down and talk about "concessions" - that don't involve wage cuts or furloughs. Suddenly we are getting 30 additional airplanes. Increased need for additional F/A's, more block holders/less reserves.....more reserves make their time and suddenly we are recalling people! Imagine that! It is acutally possilbe. Guess we will know more around Jan 15th. It isn't the reserve system that is broke.....we have to many people, right now.....but things they are a changing,

As for the examples of Susan and Molly, while it is a stretch, I have seen - in other union groups - where these types of examples have played out just as I described. One employee is fired for sick abuse, but they go to their grievance hearings armed with data about another employee that is still working and then there is a threat of a lawsuit and suddenly Susan is back to work. I saw it 3 differnet times in my old job and at least twice at me new one. I would love to think that we could single out the abusers and actually help the legitimately sick. That would be the greatest gift in the world to those with real illnesses and problems, but there are to many people protecting the abusers and very few standing up for the legtimate. (You do have a great deal of compassion for their cause which is definitly a plus, but I think you have a soft spot for the abusers because you try to legitimize their abuses.)

Lastly, I am not insulting your intelegence.....just making a point by trying to be sarcastic......which is tough to do on here. LOL

Whatnow -

You may think the pay penalty is weeding out abusers, but on a day like Christmas, many were willing to pay the price to have the holiday off. The five steop program has been around for a pretty long time now, and people will still pre-plan sick calls according to when sick call 3 and 4 are dropping off their record. I wish I could pull up some peoples work history and post it here, just to prove my point. And with your new pay penalties, doesn't it now lessen the pay reduction if you call off for a longer period of time? Again, stupid on the companies part cause they are makign you call of for longer then you need to. That is why I have said from day one that I don't agree with the pay penalty. There should be an accrual penalty for those that call off. If you call off in a month, you accrue no time for that month. The abusers will run out of sick time and the legit's will have the time needed to cover their time away from work. How many F/A's do you know with less then 100 sick hours in their bank? How many with less the 200?

Reading your remarks I will ask you this.....look at the title of the thread.....so how is it that some feel that we are short staffed?

 

[N628AU]

BoeingBoy,

No, I do understand that very well. You cannot be paid 8 hours for a day probably because since you only "work" 80-100 hours a month as flight crew (as opposed to "40 hour weeks"), the math works out to be in that 3.5 to 4 hour a day range. The nature of the beast. However, calling out sick in the other work groups does not amount to the amount of money there either, you lose things like shift differential and other hourly rates. You get only "base" rate.

PitBull,

No, I don't know you personally, and you do not know me either. Maybe that will change someday, maybe not, but we are probably more alike on a lot of stuff than we are different. That is why I never said anything about how you stand on anything, nor would I make a judgement on your character based off what little I know from reading what you write (unlike your comment about me hoping someone gets fired so I can get my job back, BTW). I simply asked if you would take someone to task if you knew they were abusing sick policy.

Also, please notice I did not make a blanket statement about, or surmise the entire F/A group was this way. Most I know are very professional, and I am proud to work with them (or say I did, anyway). There are bad apples in every bushel, and it is our job to flush out the bad, because the very slim minority causes situations like the one you see yourself in now. It is that way in every industry. Did you know a lot restaurants have policies where if you call in sick it is your responsibility to call around to find coverage for your shift? This is an industry that is very public health sensitive!

Again I need to ask, what do you think of a change that rolls all sick and vacation time together into PDOs, to use when you need to? You could even roll it to the point where you could retire early with enough time (a friend of mine works for the City of Charlotte and she is probably going to reitire over a year early under their plan with unused PDO time going to service credit because she does not use sick time very often).

 

[PITbull]

MMW,

What was offered was for an incentive for 1 day.

Why? Cause we don't have a sick problem with the f/as on this property with major abuse. We have managment team that implemented policy that was harsh with penalities because they don't want to pay out sick bank time. That is why these policies in place basically are geared to punish those that have a substantial sick bank. Now, you have to ask yourself who was this policy suppose to discipline?

With regard to accruing no hours for the month you call in sick, INSTEAD of the pay penalty...AFA presented that, Management turned it down. Why? Cause they siezed the opportunity to steal more from the f/a group. Why? Cause they went after those that have time that never get sick, just in case they do, mangement doesn't have to pay. This now is in grievance System Board. The 14 day new sick policy was arbitrated on Dec. 2 and we wait for a ruling now.

And your not managment???? Please don't get too excited about giving "pink slips" to our people. You give them out, we won't be at any table.

Good nite.

 

[Whatnow?]

PitBull -

Whatnow -

You may think the pay penalty is weeding out abusers, but on a day like Christmas, many were willing to pay the price to have the holiday off. The five steop program has been around for a pretty long time now, and people will still pre-plan sick calls according to when sick call 3 and 4 are dropping off their record. I wish I could pull up some peoples work history and post it here, just to prove my point. And with your new pay penalties, doesn't it now lessen the pay reduction if you call off for a longer period of time? Again, stupid on the companies part cause they are makign you call of for longer then you need to. That is why I have said from day one that I don't agree with the pay penalty. There should be an accrual penalty for those that call off. If you call off in a month, you accrue no time for that month. The abusers will run out of sick time and the legit's will have the time needed to cover their time away from work. How many F/A's do you know with less then 100 sick hours in their bank? How many with less the 200?

Reading your remarks I will ask you this.....look at the title of the thread.....so how is it that some feel that we are short staffed?

This "new"sick policy IS weeding out the abusers. You can no longer claim up to your option, for calling in sick. I, as an example, on the 5 trip option Transatlantic, if I were to call in sick for 1 trip.....for grins, let's say 15 hours, and DID not fly it back, and actually had to have a claim for the month....as a RSV I'm only allowed to claim up to 71.5 hours....which is my guarantee. Why would it benefit me to call in sick if I was too lazy to go to work and was not legitimately sick! I would then take a paycut for the month for calling in sick......again, it's not worth the effort! I too, may have abused "my"sick time in the past, but now I'm glad I did, because those days are long gone now! I WILL not let this company KEEP my sick time, it's mine and I'm glad I've used it! I WILL no longer continue to abuse that time because it's really not worth the effort anymore. And as for the F/A's that called in sick over Christmas, they too are not making any money above their guarantee, so why not spend the Holiday with "LOVED" ones instead of being ridiculed and looked down on as I was! Would have been different if our so called "HOLIDAY'" pay was time and a half like MAYBE your department might be!

 

[PITbull]

N6,

I can't speak to the PDO time because I don't know much about how that works and how much time you get in a year. However, I think if it helps you to retire early, than that is an idea. Only thing, you have to be at a job long enough to reach a retirement. There are many companies that are not good companies to stay with because their benefits and salaries are substandard. When you are with a good company, you want to stay with the business, grow the business and loyalty develops.

Presently, U is not good for longevity anymore, and there is no prospects to grow mainline enough to start hiring. I think f/as should be able to put 5 days vacation aside per year to apply towards Long Term Disability, for just in case. We have 120 day wait before LTD kicks in since this last winter ratified agreement. Most folks, if they find themselves diabled, will end up losing their house. 120 day wait of sick is approx 700 hours of sick banked time which takes about 8 years to accumulate. If you are able to put away in an LTD bank some vacation days every year then if you never use it in your career, than cash in the vacation.

When it comes to defending some abusers that may be out there, even felons deserve representation in a court, regardless of the crime comiitted.

When it comes to defending abusers, if there is true abuse, the documentation and investigation by the company should be full proof. If its flawed, than obviously, there was no abuse.

 

[N628AU]

You are glad you abused your sick time? Your sick time is not vacation time. It is SICK time. Either you are sick or you are not sick. If we had a PDO system like I presented here, it would not be an issue, and could be better planned for.

Maybe you and I are just different, but it would bother me personally if I called in sick when I was not.

 

[Whatnow?]

Maybe, but I look at it as if it was my money....I'm going to SPEND it before it's gone! Hate to say that....but in the 15 years I've been here.....it's never looked good for longevity at this airline! Hate to go down with that in my sick bank! It's awful, but true! :unsure:

 

[N628AU]

Okay, I see our difference here. You look at sick time as something that you are entitled to you, I look at it as insurance should heaven forbid I get sick or injured and cannot work. When I sign on for a job, I am agreeing to work in exchange for a set amount compensation, my wages. If I am physically and mentally able to do the job, I feel obligated to do my job. People who see that sick time as an entitlement for a day off, create the very issues we are discussing here, and do a disservive to their co-workers when they truly need the sick time.

 

[Whatnow?]

I can see how you would percieve it that way.....but let's look at another issue, bare with me....If, I as a RSV, have 25 hours of vacation for December, and I don't make my guarantee for the month, through no fault of my own, I DO NOT get paid for all that vacation time that I have accrued. If ,I don't meet my guarantee through not fault of my own, that vacation time is ABSORBED into my guarantee for the month of 71.5 hours regardless if it's my accrued vacation time or not. ....It's lost in the 71.5 hour guarantee. On a normal flying schedule if I were to break my 71.5 guarantee, my vacation time would be paid on top of that. How could I predict the year before that I would loose that much vacation time for December the following year.....I'm not Nostradamus. WE take what we can when we can......Most of us are intelligent enough to leave enough sick time in our banks to use for those rainy days.

 

[Whatnow?]

Again, it's not that I'm defending those that called in sick over the Holiday, but there are far too many more issues on the table the F/A's are dealing with right now. And, with an impending furlough on the table for January or February, how are things going to improve?

 

[700UW]

Ask the ramp, customer service and non-union employees about PDO, us air back in 1992, took away all vacation, sick, oi and holidays and replaced them with PDOs, they hated it, you never could build up a sick bank in case you had a major illness, and the company scrapped it several years later.

 

[PSA1979]

I just counted how many F/A Reserves from all bases called in sick on Christmas Day and there were a total of 260. That is not counting the block holders. If there were the same number of block holders calling in sick as reserves, then well over 500 called in sick for just Christmas day. Wow, we need to contact the CDC as we have a huge flu epidemic going on, or there are a lot of f/a's that just don't care whether they have a job or not. I bet there were at least 500 who were furloughed that would have loved to come back and fly Christmas, just to have a job. I have been in the airline business myself for 25 years and my Dad was an airline pilot from 1959 until 1989. Our family celebrated Christmas what ever day my Dad was home and when I started my family, we celebrated when I was home. By the way, out of 25 years I probably worked at least 20 Christmas Days and Eves. And for at least 12 years I was on reserve and didn't get my time in most every month, yet I still was able to tear myself away from my family and go do my job. It seems work ethic is a thing of the past!!

 

[N628AU]

So because PDO did not work out 11 years ago, it could not be reworked to be a positive now? I have seen it work at a hospital and with the City of Charlotte. As for not building up enough time for a major illness, you would still accrue the same amount of sick and vacation time, but it would go into one bank. It would be the responsibility of the employee to properly manage their PDO time.

 

[PITbull]

I can see how you would percieve it that way.....but let's look at another issue, bare with me....If, I as a RSV, have 25 hours of vacation for December, and I don't make my guarantee for the month, through no fault of my own, I DO NOT get paid for all that vacation time that I have accrued. If ,I don't meet my guarantee through not fault of my own, that vacation time is ABSORBED into my guarantee for the month of 71.5 hours regardless if it's my accrued vacation time or not. ....It's lost in the 71.5 hour guarantee. On a normal flying schedule if I were to break my 71.5 guarantee, my vacation time would be paid on top of that. How could I predict the year before that I would loose that much vacation time for December the following year.....I'm not Nostradamus. WE take what we can when we can......Most of us are intelligent enough to leave enough sick time in our banks to use for those rainy days.

What you say is 100% true. Reserves get screwed on sick, vacation gets reabsorbed through the guarantee, and WAMO, huge cost savings to mangement.

Totally UNFAIR, all the way around. And it is not your years of service that makes you a reserve. We have 32 year service f/as who are on International who find themselves now sitting on reserve with the same rules.

 

[PITbull]

I just counted how many F/A Reserves from all bases called in sick on Christmas Day and there were a total of 260. That is not counting the block holders. If there were the same number of block holders calling in sick as reserves, then well over 500 called in sick for just Christmas day. Wow, we need to contact the CDC as we have a huge flu epidemic going on, or there are a lot of f/a's that just don't care whether they have a job or not. I bet there were at least 500 who were furloughed that would have loved to come back and fly Christmas, just to have a job. I have been in the airline business myself for 25 years and my Dad was an airline pilot from 1959 until 1989. Our family celebrated Christmas what ever day my Dad was home and when I started my family, we celebrated when I was home. By the way, out of 25 years I probably worked at least 20 Christmas Days and Eves. And for at least 12 years I was on reserve and didn't get my time in most every month, yet I still was able to tear myself away from my family and go do my job. It seems work ethic is a thing of the past!!

PSA,

NOPE! You are dead wrong. So now you all have got me to tell you and wheasle it out of me. (298) total. So, that is apporx 0.6% of the f/a population. There was also an "orange Security altert", in case that just happen to slip your mind. F/as are only human and the "fear" is still very real. So, you have it, so stop exagerating to make the f/as look worse than the situation was!

Please, stop critisizing our group, this doesn't make you look good, or special or different. This is your profession. Many f/as want to leave. I know cause I hear it all day long from all bases. They want to either get furloughed or go out on a VF. They have had it with this company. If they resign, they can't collect unemployment. If they get fired, they can. So, we will see what will happen. There will be many retirees this year as well. So, if you can work out a deal with this mangement for our group for those who want to leave here.....go at it! But, no one will just up and resign, and receive no unemployment.

If a VF is offered, this place will look like a ghost town. Folks are only human, even those who will be recalled will be in the same position as those who now want out. This I know.

This managment has murdered our profession, and folks are, for the first time, bailing out. And Management is looking for concession #3 with changing work rules to make our jobs even MORE infexible??? Not on my watch.

PS: And with all those xmas's you worked and Xmas' Eves, you're a miserable person for it.