Flight Attendant Staffing Shortages

[Coffee_Tea_Or_Me]

And when the bid sheet is eliminated, and you become a block holder.....you will cry that you have NO flexibility.

You will burn trips that you cant drop through the bid sheet, and a reserve will end up flying it anyway. How about this....

Bid a block....and fly it! What a novel idea! Who in AFA will go for that?

mmmmhmmm....thats what I thought.

I think UAL and NWA AFA went for that, right? Not sure, but my understanding is that most people at other major carriers fly their blocks. UAL even gives a 4 hour call out for reserves....

It would be nice if everyone did what was best for the entire profession, not just what is best for the blockholder or the reserve. The US reserve system is arguably the worst in the industry, and long-time blockholders should recognize that and be willing to forfeit a little flexibility to help out their struggling colleagues.

 

[Travelpro72]

The problem is that this system KEEPS flight attendants ON reserve to afford basically unheard of flexibility for blockholders. Don't get me wrong I don't want blockholders to forfeit any of their flexibility BUT the problems this is causing for those under you is seriously mounting. NO flight attendant that feels they "paid their dues" had to endure what we are going through right now. Not in any way, shape or form. It's costly for the company to keep the bidsheet and you can almost guarantee it will not make it through negotiations. You have a lot of blockholders on the west side that WON'T vote for it as they know it would put MANY, MANY, MANY back on reserve. Forget it and get use to it. It's going. Does anyone realize the price of the bidsheat at the table? Giving it up would give us SO much more in terms of vacation/work rules. The company WON'T keep it without something concessionary to let it say. Seniority is everything in this job but the days of holding one flight attendant group DOWN only to keep another group UP is coming to an end. I'm SO sick and tired of hearing "someday you will" this or that. Bull. It's through two bankruptcies and concessions that the reserves got thrown under the bus. Here at US f/a's will eat their young.

 

[Iheartflying]

The problem is that this system KEEPS flight attendants ON reserve to afford basically unheard of flexibility for blockholders. Don't get me wrong I don't want blockholders to forfeit any of their flexibility BUT the problems this is causing for those under you is seriously mounting. NO flight attendant that feels they "paid their dues" had to endure what we are going through right now. Not in any way, shape or form. It's costly for the company to keep the bidsheet and you can almost guarantee it will not make it through negotiations. You have a lot of blockholders on the west side that WON'T vote for it as they know it would put MANY, MANY, MANY back on reserve. Forget it and get use to it. It's going. Does anyone realize the price of the bidsheat at the table? Giving it up would give us SO much more in terms of vacation/work rules. The company WON'T keep it without something concessionary to let it say. Seniority is everything in this job but the days of holding one flight attendant group DOWN only to keep another group UP is coming to an end. I'm SO sick and tired of hearing "someday you will" this or that. Bull. It's through two bankruptcies and concessions that the reserves got thrown under the bus. Here at US f/a's will eat their young.

I couldn't agree with you more. Burn the Bid Sheet!

 

[aredeeyou22]

I couldn't agree with you more. Burn the Bid Sheet!

I don't think the issue is as cut and dry as "burn the bid sheet...." and suddenly, all is well.

I think the whole scheduling/ bidding system needs to be restructured. Do I, as a reserve, look forward to increased flexibility as a lineholder someday? Of course! Who wouldn't, and no rational FA of any seniority would want to negotiate any levels of flexibility away.

That said, we need to restructure the entire system to come up with a scheduling system, for both lineholders and reserves, where every seniority level is able to prosper financially. I think it's presumptuous to say "burn the bid sheet!" and that will somehow suddenly fix our woes. We need a complete overhaul, and an entire revamp of lineholder/ reserve scheduling.

As sick as I am of being on reserve, I look forward to the day when I am afforded certain flexibilities that come with holding a line. I don't need to re schedule myself 8 times for a month, but I certainly am not interested in negotiating away perks that could be meshed into a system that works for all.

In closing, the real problem is the stagnation that FA's are seeing at USAir. Negotiate a retirement with some sort of benefits, and we will start to see things change. I just cannot see how a "BH v RSV" war benefits us at all....

 

[aredeeyou22]

and long-time blockholders should recognize that and be willing to forfeit a little flexibility to help out their struggling colleagues.

Sorry, that will never happen. Show me one airline contract that was amended because the senior people were concerned about the junior people. You get what you negotiate, period. That's why it is so important to have a complete overhaul of the system, and to educate ourselves on the new system before we vote. Who says that we can't have a fair, financially stable system for all FA's with the bid sheet still intact?

Giving back things such as the bid sheet, a huge negotiation item, without first seeing how it would fit into a new system is a mistake. Once you give it back, it's gone.

As fed up as we reserves are, level heads have to prevail. I want to see the tentative product first before I start giving flexibility tools away.

We've given enough.

 

[EMBFA]

This has been discussed to death, so I'll just throw out a few points.

* The bid sheet is expensive to maintain and an absurdly inefficient use of staffing. It also requires more manpower to reschedule the airline every day to no one's befefit but a small group of aging stewardesses. The company is not going to keep it.

* It's an oddity in the industry, desinged for an airline with normal atrition. The F/A groups incredible shortsightedness in previous negotiations has outsourced a majority of the airline, and eliminated turnover at the top with financially ill-prepared F/As who will know fly until they die.

* The West F/As, already being bumped down in thier own base, are not going vote for something that will put the majority of them on reserve.

* The East reserves will not agree to anything simliar to the status quo, and are a relatively organized group who are extremely angry and likely to vote.

* Many of East's more senior F/As don't vote, many of them don't even know how to use a computer, or read a contract.

* If one wants to consider eliminating the bid sheet a concession, well then that's right up the East F/As alley.

* There will be more mergers, and trust me when I tell you that thousands upon thousands of F/As at the major airlines couldn't care less about a couple thousand USAir F/As and their antiquated, small views.

 

[HP_JACK]

First come first served? You've got to be kidding. That may work in an environment where everyone is junior like yourself, but not at a system that is run based on seniority. Unlike the west, flying is based on what you can hold. If your seniority is junior, you get stuck flying what those senior have the ability to drop or not have to fly. That is the way of the world. And HP, you to seem as though you want to be concessionary... Is that the way the west thinks? Give Give Give and never receive.... Pitifull

Just my opinion...

ASSuming a lot aren't we? We do everything by seniority to a point. Bidding lines, Vacation, positions, charters, but after relief is finished the whole DPU process takes place. Yes FCFS! I think it works for all seniority ranges, you have the ability to drop your trip and pick up one thats available right on the spot out of Open time and not have to wait for Scheduling to process the a BID sheet. How is that concessionary? Its not. Its an even playing field for everyone and helps people out who want to constantly looking for something better, commutable, whatever. Its not like the trips in Open time are FAB anyways. Anyone with a sweet trip is not going to dump it into opentime. So I don't think it will corrupt your enviroment where everyone is SO SENIOR such as yourself. Show some love Stud and be nice to your stepfamily

BURN THE BID SHEET

 

[aredeeyou22]

This has been discussed to death, so I'll just throw out a few points.

* The bid sheet is expensive to maintain and an absurdly inefficient use of staffing. It also requires more manpower to reschedule the airline every day to no one's befefit but a small group of aging stewardesses. The company is not going to keep it.

* It's an oddity in the industry, desinged for an airline with normal atrition. The F/A groups incredible shortsightedness in previous negotiations has outsourced a majority of the airline, and eliminated turnover at the top with financially ill-prepared F/As who will know fly until they die.

* The West F/As, already being bumped down in thier own base, are not going vote for something that will put the majority of them on reserve.

* The East reserves will not agree to anything simliar to the status quo, and are a relatively organized group who are extremely angry and likely to vote.

* Many of East's more senior F/As don't vote, many of them don't even know how to use a computer, or read a contract.

* If one wants to consider eliminating the bid sheet a concession, well then that's right up the East F/As alley.

* There will be more mergers, and trust me when I tell you that thousands upon thousands of F/As at the major airlines couldn't care less about a couple thousand USAir F/As and their antiquated, small views.

Agreed, the bid sheet is useless to everyone except maybe the top 10%, and it will probably be gone in its current form. I think that reserves are thinking their troubles will just go away if we dump the bid sheet. We need to negotiate an entire system that allows for flexibility and financial stability for all. It's more than just the bid sheet. Simply giving up the bid sheet so BH's flexibility is taken away is spiteful, and not in anyone's best interests. It divides us. Giving up the bid sheet would be a major concession if we received nothing in return, and it scares me that its the reserves that are crying for its demise without seeing a final, negotiated scheduling system.

 

[Coffee_Tea_Or_Me]

This has been discussed to death, so I'll just throw out a few points.

* The bid sheet is expensive to maintain and an absurdly inefficient use of staffing. It also requires more manpower to reschedule the airline every day to no one's befefit but a small group of aging stewardesses. The company is not going to keep it.

* It's an oddity in the industry, desinged for an airline with normal atrition. The F/A groups incredible shortsightedness in previous negotiations has outsourced a majority of the airline, and eliminated turnover at the top with financially ill-prepared F/As who will know fly until they die.

* The West F/As, already being bumped down in thier own base, are not going vote for something that will put the majority of them on reserve.

* The East reserves will not agree to anything simliar to the status quo, and are a relatively organized group who are extremely angry and likely to vote.

* Many of East's more senior F/As don't vote, many of them don't even know how to use a computer, or read a contract.

* If one wants to consider eliminating the bid sheet a concession, well then that's right up the East F/As alley.

* There will be more mergers, and trust me when I tell you that thousands upon thousands of F/As at the major airlines couldn't care less about a couple thousand USAir F/As and their antiquated, small views.

SOOOO well said!

 

[Twicebaked]

What on earth makes you think we should make our CBA like everyone elses. And what gives you the right to take away what has been in place through many a contract because you are junior and have to fly what a BH can give up. Someday some of you will be senior enough to reap the benefits of seniority. Other sadly wont have the patients put the years of flying and drudgery to understand the ramifications of such actions. An airline bases it's unionized labor agreements on seniority. Period. What part of that don't you understand? Sorry you are junior... Stay here a while and you just might become senior. If not, so be it. This once again points to the fact you think you are entitled to superseed seniority.

Yes the system is broken, yes it needs to run more efficiently, yes the more junior flight attendants need to have the flexibity the more senior f/a's have. But not at the expense of being concessionary.

Just my opinion...

It is called changing with the industry. And what gives you the f%$#ing right to expect us to keep suffering for you?

 

[galley princess]

Great, another Evil BH's have everything thread. What's it been? Two months? I would quote the last eline where the basic outline of the proposed changes to the reserve system were laid out, but everybody knows where to find it.

The Bidsheet isn't going anywhere. Actually, I don't anticipate much changing at all, beyond a return of our vacation, return of sick time and more money. We aren't going to get everything back, but with any reasonable competence on AFA's part, as much as possible.

The reserves need a return of a seniority based system and the demise of LTO. LTO is the reason for the mass misery, not the bidsheet. So far it looks like AFA is negotiating for its demise, 12 days off instead of just 11, and unless the company wants another division (unlikely), 12 hour shifts. I also hope that they're going to raise the hours from 73 to 85, but I won't hold my breath.

Those senior ladies that so many love to insult with ageist comments are not stupid, and they've had the bidsheet for most of their career. They've lost enough, they won't lose that too. Throw in the 89 hires, who by the way supercede anyone's misery at this company, and who only just lately hold anywhere decent blocks and you won't see them voting away their hard won benefits. Finally, you have a now suffering contingent of PIT fa's who DO vote and need flexibility for their commute.

The main reason the company won't get it IMHO, is that it would be waay to expensive of a concession. They're cheap. If they did want it, they'd have to pay big for it and replace it with some kind of hybrid of the ETB and a seniority system, which would require a new program ($$$$$), which they won't buy. Remember Pref Bid? Hopefully AFA will hammer everything down hard in writing, because heaven knows these people exploit every loophole. A more amoral avaricious bunch is not to be found amongst airlines.

Of course, it's all speculation. The carcasses are piling up around here. A lot depends on how the oil situation plays out, dereg of European skies, who merges with who, if there will be an airplane for China etc. Certainly will be interesting.

All these kind of threads achieve is a bunch of giggles in Tempe over how divided we all are.

 

[IMisstheAladdinTrays]

Absolutely not! We need more lines and fewer reserves. Only we should utilize reserves for irregular operations, illegal crews, sick calls, etc. You know, real emergencies...People, Safety Stud is a perfect example of why the union is the way it is. :down: :down: :down:

The "union" is the way it is because the membership does not engage. You and I are the union! So what are we going to do to fix it?

 

[USCREW]

The "union" is the way it is because the membership does not engage. You and I are the union! So what are we going to do to fix it?

Vote for IMisstheAladdinTrays!

 

[IMisstheAladdinTrays]

Vote for IMisstheAladdinTrays!

:wub:

 

[N965VJ]

How about getting rid of the bid sheet AND implementing rotating reserve? Then yinz can be “like all the other airlinesâ€￾.

I’d post a link to an exchange I had recently with an 18 year UA FA who thinks rotating reserve is a terrible system, but that chatboard is presently having server issues.

BTW, nice avatar USCREW. LOL