Glimpse Into The Real World

cavalier

Veteran
Aug 28, 2002
2,409
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www.usaviation.com
I read this from the yahoo boards. It’s message from a former U mechanic. So to all the people who believe it's all peaches and cream out there beating their chest they don't care, shut U down, tell Dave & Dave to stick it...here is a glimpse into the real world fellow U employees, especially mechanics. Boy am I glad I have my financial house in order! What’s the answer? Either go to school or get out of debt real fast I would think so you can work at Wal*Mart.
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As Quoted:
Been laid off from USAIR now over two years after twelve years of service. I am now working at TIMCO the most ---- up situation I see that will only get worse as far as third party maintenance goes is the total loss of a true career. Absolutely no job security whatsoever. If you are not clocked on to a job you are not getting an hourly wage period. If no work available you are sent home. I truly messed up taking this job and all of you out there think before you go to work for anybody as you will give up your unemployment $$. Get another career and go to school use your time wisely. I am working on UAL aircraft all subsidized by them after laying off thousands of mechanics and the taxpayer bailout money that both AWA and USAIR have received. Our current President is so well at managing "Other People's Money". Bad business decisions at the top and us "Little People" at the bottom suffer as a result. I do think that USAIR will most likely fail after all is said and done but the employees will suffer and Siegel and the group will live happily ever after.
 
cavalier said:
I read this from the yahoo boards. It’s message from a former U mechanic. So to all the people who believe it's all peaches and cream out there beating their chest they don't care, shut U down, tell Dave & Dave to stick it...here is a glimpse into the real world fellow U employees, especially mechanics. Boy am I glad I have my financial house in order! What’s the answer? Either go to school or get out of debt real fast I would think so you can work at Wal*Mart.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As Quoted:
Been laid off from USAIR now over two years after twelve years of service. I am now working at TIMCO the most ---- up situation I see that will only get worse as far as third party maintenance goes is the total loss of a true career. Absolutely no job security whatsoever. If you are not clocked on to a job you are not getting an hourly wage period. If no work available you are sent home. I truly messed up taking this job and all of you out there think before you go to work for anybody as you will give up your unemployment $$. Get another career and go to school use your time wisely. I am working on UAL aircraft all subsidized by them after laying off thousands of mechanics and the taxpayer bailout money that both AWA and USAIR have received. Our current President is so well at managing "Other People's Money". Bad business decisions at the top and us "Little People" at the bottom suffer as a result. I do think that USAIR will most likely fail after all is said and done but the employees will suffer and Siegel and the group will live happily ever after.
Cav,
I agree that having ones financial ducks in a row is absolutely paramount. I have made every move imaginable to shed myself of any degree of debt since the merger failed between UA and U. September 11 2001 only magnified this need.

However , I do not agree to caving in to Dave's expressed desires to outsource the Mechanic and Related work. Should the "Chest Beaters" as you call them , capitulate to Dave and Daves whims? You will then in turn create more positions at the sweat shops like TIMCO and the alike. Who in their right mind wants to be part of that growing industry problem?

I do not see this as a warning to just mechanics. U's potential failure will idle many more less skilled and industrious people beyond just the mechanical group.

I will never subscribe to what Dave is attempting to do regarding the outsourcing of "Our Work" for a few reasons.

(1) I fear for safety related issues being overlooked...as they notedly have in the past. Outsourcing creates a broken chain regarding accountability.

(2) I do not appreciate the "Left-Handed" attempt by Dave to abrogate an agreed upon contract.

(3) I do not believe in the profits landing in the hands of companies like EADS and Mobile Aerospace...where the real profits end up in Europe and Singapore as opposed to remaining in the US thus stimulating our economy by keepng more people at work.

Take counsel of your fears...and always be prepared for the worst , yet don't fold your hand until all the cards are delt. We just might force them to do the right thing...even if it requires the court system to enforce the right thing.

I will take my chances on opposing the current trends...and if it means leaving aviation by doing so? So be it !! I have done other things before..and never missed a meal in light of it. I will do my personal best to keep U aloft...I hope the same promise and spirit is within the criminals in CCY?
 
AOG: Spot on...My thoughts exactly.

As far as having one's financial "ducks in a row" is just common sense. Not a bad idea even with a secure job, I might add.

Oh, and if I hear one more statement to the effect that the only apt qualification for former airline employees is WalMart/"flipping burgers"/blah blah blah.......................................................
 
PineyBob said:
See the Boy Scouts may not be hip and happening but their "Be Prepared" motto is sound advice!

I think the cautionary tale presented by Cavelier is a lesson for all of us regarding work life going forward. I know i am cynical on this issue but lately it seems that the attitude is well grounded.

I think the toughest part is having the rug pulled from under you in mid life, it really sucks. I know because i've been there. I am $7,000 away from Zero Debt of ANY kind. I rent now instead of own. car is almost paid for. By years end I will have my expenses down to a point where I could live pretty well off NJ unemployment. It's sad that it's come to this but with the globalization no one is immune, not even Mr Siegel.
Piney Bob,

We are of an alike mindset on this one. My debt is all but nill at this point...and I foresee a car being paid for by February 1....sooner if need be?..but I don't want to hit any savings until the if , becomes a when on the dam breaking.

My mission in life since the failed merger , was to keep my eyes on the horizon for other options , pay off all debt minus actual living expenses....and to keep those safely within a realm that Un-Employment or a slightly lower initial salary will handle with relative ease.

I agree with High Iron....many will never be relagated to Wal-Mart or Burger-Flipping. That end is purely avoidable based upon the talents , contacts and resourcefullness of the individual in question. I don't even see that scenario as a blip on the radar in my case...nor will I. That is a Dave oriented threat for those lacking self-confidence or marketable skills.

My back drop is to return to the automotive industry where I made a good living in years prior. This time it will be an expanse on fixing them like I do as a sideline. I had this making money before I took the bump to PIT...and now that I'm squarely back in CLT...it's my choice to advance or promote myself , not Dave's

I would love to retire from U...I love the planes and the people along with the travel and tainted insurance benefits...Yet as a good friend says in his board signature. "The sun will come up tomorrow" with or without USAirways
 
aerosmith said:
cav I never thought it would be peaches & cream, I still say Dave can stick it. I will move on with or without uair!!
My topic was not to agree or disagree with this current management team. I agree 100% with AOG! Screw giving our work away! My point is exactly what Piney pointed out, be prepared especially if you’re of the mind set of aero here that this job matters not to you personally. Just wanted to show folks what the world looks like to a former U mechanic.
 
How can you get your ducks in a row and pay off your dept when your pay doesnt even cover the bills any more. Unlees your a pilot...
Seems to me that more employees dept will get bigger trying to hang on to what they have for to long ...now you have to take over time to get by and saving money isn't even in the picture...more time away from the kids quality off life goes down bla bla bla ....now I'm depressed ......
 
The point is how much is enough? Where do we draw the line for givebacks? It is a very ugly world out there, and no one wants to start over. How much more do we have to give for this airline to "Maybe" survive. I feel its better to cut my own losses now and just say NO MORE. We have given twice and they claim they need more, but the bottom line is out executives are very well compensated to run the company and not just cut!!!!!NO MORE!!!!!!!!!
 
CAV,

I agree with AOG.

I am not sure of your message you conveyed above. You call those who oppose Dave as "Chest beater". You were once one of those people. May I ask, who are you now? You have been on these boards reiterating your mistake for voting in both concessions, and now you are back to calling folks who oppose dave "chest beaters". For what end, may I ask?

Correct me if I'm wrong, have you buckled to fear of this management? Is your post to convey some sort of warning that most on these boards have not heard before? Or to tell us what? That the world is not "peachy"? If U liquidates, do you think Dave will run another airline in his future? His stock will go to zero as well.

What is your message?
 
Pitbull,

Cavalier has finally seen the light. It serves no purpose to fight with management. Being a team player will enable everyone to win at the end. The readers of this board should join Cavalier in being part of Dave's team. :up:
 
PITbull said:
CAV,

I agree with AOG.

I am not sure of your message you conveyed above. You call those who oppose Dave as "Chest beater". zYou were once one of those people. May I ask, who are you now? You have been on these boards reiterating your mistake for voting in both concessions, and now you are back to calling folks who oppose dave "chest beaters". For what end, may I ask?

Correct me if I'm wrong, have you buckled to fear of this management? Is your post to convey some sort of warning that most on these boards have not heard before? Or to tell us what? That the world is not "peachy"? If U liquidates, do you think Dave will run another airline in his future? His stock will go to zero as well.

What is your message?
Pit. I am sorry you misunderstand me, or otherwise disagree. But what I am saying is exactly what I am saying. Wearing a mask looking through the holes and not seeing reality is living in fantasy land. If you really believe everything is going to stay status-quo, no change and no one will be harmed then I am afraid you too are dreaming because it's going to happen like it or not. I have disagreed with PineyBob in the past, but I must say he makes as much sense on these boards as anyone does when he says over and over that U is NOT one’s life blood, we all have personal responsibility, everything that happens to us in life is not U’s fault. Keep on beating your drum that management must do what YOU believe is necessary, what YOU say they MUST do and it still won't change a damn thing! What's going to happen will happen and unless there is one big turnaround in this industry, no amount of bitching and moaning is going to change that fact; a fact everyone can see except airline workers who are too caught up in it to see through the fodder. I don't care if you agree or disagree with me, fact is fact and no amount of screaming at me or anyone on these boards who doesn't see things exactly like you will change a thing. Either we will take more pay cuts or there will be a lot less of us, it’s going to be one or the other and neither you nor anyone is going to change that simple fact no matter how much you disagree with me or anyone who doesn’t share your world view. If you believe things can and will stay as they are and everyone will be just fine, then I must say we totally disagree. I am in no way praising this management team, I personally wish they never came on board and feel we would be better off had they never showed up. That aside here we are, like it or not. I am allowed my opinion just like you give almost everyday on here, now you have mine, at least give it some respect . Agreeing with your every word is not a prerequisite to voice ones opinion.
 
CAV,

Well welcome to management's world. You accuse Bob of being wishy washy in one way then another. I believe this is what, amazingly, I am seeing in you.

Well, you surely have cofused me. I NEVER SAID THAT THE STATUS QUO SHUOLD BE MAINTAINED. If you have been looking around real well, you can see that the "STATUS QUO" IS G-0-N-E!!!


All I can say to you, my friend, is get ready. Hope you are ready in the "so called" light and revelation you see. As Smoke & mirrors so piognantly said, YOU have seen mangement's light. Good for you. Sure is different than what you have been storming on these boards the last 6 months. But hey, you have a right to change your mind..... Don't be sorry for the misunderstanding. I fully understand your intenet here. As smokin & Mirrors stated above, welcome to Dave's team.

I want no part of.

Bye.
 
Cav,

I respect your right to an opinion...and I agree with you on the simple fact that 'status quo" is not our future...or the answer to righting many many years of wrongs and shear stupidity.

On the other hand...I do not see "Outsourcing" as a viable alternative from a safety perspective or as an economic engine that our country dearly needs.

Outsourcing and the other Draconian measures that have been used against us to date has not stemed the rising tide against us as a business...but it has erroided the infrastructure that bonds us as a collective being.

In short....We need changes to our business plan via greater stage lengths , additional destinations presently un-served....and keepig these planes moving in and pushing out faster. This is within our ability to do...as long as we keep the force in place to do it....but we know that is not Daves desire.....and that is exactly what I'm speaking out against.
 
Smoke and Mirrors said:
Pitbull,

Cavalier has finally seen the light. It serves no purpose to fight with management. Being a team player will enable everyone to win at the end. The readers of this board should join Cavalier in being part of Dave's team. :up:
My, my, my.

What a strange and interesting "world" we live in.

Very interesting thread. Things are getting curiouser and curiouser.

Keep the faith, PitBull. Thanks for all you do.
 
To Chip, opps I meant Cav,

The employees and vendors of US Airways have given this management over $2 billion a year in concessions, 20,000 less employees and they still don't have a clue on how to run an airline.

All the airlines are growing we continue to shrink. All the Wall Street experts point the finger at management and not labor as the cause of the problems at US Airways.

I for one will never ever trust Dave Siegel and his management team, they have done nothing but lie and steal from the employees since they have taken over. Dave is nothing more then a wolf in sheep's clothing.

I for one will not let him make money out of my blood, sweat and tears, I have a family to support and it is getting to the point that the lower paid workers in this company will qualify for welfare and food stamps if we give back one red cent.

This management team has stolen work from us mechanics and then ask for our help to support them? I mean that should be grounds for an immediate drug test to anyone who supports Dave.

The employees of this company no longer have any respect or trust for the executives who are running this company into the ground.

What is Dave gonna ask or steal next? Or is he just gonna ask you to pay him for the privilege of working here?

This reminds me of the old mine towns where you got paid, then had to pay the company back all your salary to live and eat.

The line has to be drawn in the sand and look at the UA and AA employees who were successful (IE. Goodwin and Carty) of getting rid of inept CEOs, it is the time to stand up and fight against the injustices that Dave has wreaked upon us, not to cower down and roll over once again for him.

Time for Dave and his team to go and bring Greg Brenneman former President of Continental to restore the employee trust and turn this company around.