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Heck, they didn't even get that far, or all the way up to speed, or have the same fuel load as the others.

Hey eolesen, awaiting your comment. <_<


NO...eolesen WON'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THIS! HE ONLY HAS IDEAS ABOUT SLEEPING ON THE JOB, AND SLAKING!!! HE DOESN'T EVEN WORK FOR AA ANYMORE???

THE DRIVERS ARE OUT OF THE HOSPITAL,AND DOING O.K.??? THE DRIVER HAS STAPLES FROM HIS FOREHEAD TO THE BACK OF HIS HEAD! THEY ARE BOTH VERY,VERY LUCKY THE NOSE GEAR DIDN'T COLAPSE, WE WOULD BE PLANNING 2 FUNERALS! COULD HAVE BEEN ANYONE OF US GOLDHOFER DRIVER?! GOOD-RID'NS!!
 
No, I think we should have been able to read German, after all some of the warning signs labeled on the Goldhofer are written in German. Maybe the problem was in the translation when converting KGs to Pounds for towing weight and feet to meters for stopping distance. :huh: 😱


Schleppen Sie nicht 777 mit diesem Schlepper! :shock:
 
Schleppen Sie nicht 777 mit diesem Schlepper! :shock:

Schleppen Sie nicht 777 mit diesem Schlepper

"Do not drag 777 with this tractor"

See I know what it says in German so I guess it is still operator error. 😱 😱
 
I notice eoleson and the rest of the gang of company hired propaganda ministers are silent on this one. Come on! You are hired to post on this board the company side of everything now let's hear it on this one.
 
I notice eoleson and the rest of the gang of company hired propaganda ministers are silent on this one. Come on! You are hired to post on this board the company side of everything now let's hear it on this one.
Yeah I was awaiting his reply and wanted to see if he had any comments regarding his post to this thread. <_<

eolesen...May 24 2008, 03:51 AM Seems to me that the issue regarding braking is addressable -- don't go so damn fast and it will be easier to stop. Just because it can go faster doesn't mean you have to...
:shock: :shock:
 
If I'm hired to do this, then where's my paycheck?..... Sorry if I have a life outside of USAviation, and it took me a few hours to bother to read this... Next time, page me if you think my opinion is so damn important. 😉



When this all started, you guys were complaining that the tractor couldn't stop the weight of the 777.

From the incident today, it sounds to me as though that's exactly what happened - it stopped.

Quickly.

Enough that these guys slammed into the windshield......


I've never heard of a problem with the Douglas equivilent, and they've been in use for at least a decade, so the concept of the high-speed gear-lift tractor isn't the problem. I watched them in use at CDG last week, and they certainly weren't trying to break any speed records going between the terminal and the hangars.

So, my original comment stands -- speed is an issue, almost as much as the inferior equipment.

The tractor clearly shouldn't be going 15 mph if it either can't stop, or stops so hard that people get hurt.

If the training and policies/procedures didn't take that into account, the company f***ed up.

If the local safety committee allowed it to continue, they f***ed up as well.


And no, I don't buy the argument of the company or the airport forcing you to go fast.

Nobody should attempt to operate a piece of equipment in a manner they feel will put them at risk. Doing so is more likely to get you into a 29F than refusing to do so.

Even if a supervisor or manager tries to give you a directive to drive faster than you feel is safe, directives become invalid if they involve an illegal or immoral act, or put you, other employees, or customers at a risk for injury. (please use that argument sparingly... you could still wind up in a 29F to explain declining a directive)
 
Eric, have you ever towed an aircraft or ride brakes across active taxi ways or runways at a busy airport? If so then you know there are many times you must move quickly. Have you ever heard of the phrase "Do Not Delay" or Expedite? You know this means only one thing and that is to move your arse now. Reasons too move quickly across active runways is usually obviously. I do not think I have to give any examples since most of us on this board know what I am talking about. As far as your comment on the Goldhofer did stop the 777 rather abruptly does not mean it is the correct way or using the correct equipment for the 777 with that much weight on-board. If the Goldhofer is able to stop a loaded 777 and create this kind of damage and bodily harm then there is a problem.

I read on a earlier comment on this thread that AA modified the Goldhofers in DFW to allow the towing of the 777 because of the extra weight was damaging the Goldhofers. Well if this is true and I am sure someone will attest to it then there lies the problem. Our Goldhofers are not designed for the 777 in the capacity we move them. Goldhofer has other models that can move heavier aircraft but AA opted for the ones we have for whatever reason. Now we have issues and AA is scratching their heads on what to do next. At what expense? Human injury, aircraft damage? Next time we may not be so lucky.
A nose gear may rip off or even worse.

Hate to think of the consequences. One big aircraft incident might wipe out all the cost savings. I hope AA puts this issue to rest and considers safety before cost. Using the right piece of equipment for the right job and properly trained people should lead to a safe operation. But no matter how safe you may be if the equipment you are using is not designed or rated for the job you are doing an accident is about to happen sooner or later.
 
snip ...
Why can't they just listen to the pros who drove these things?

What?

Listen to someone's opinion that hasn't a college degree regardless of whether that person is right or wrong? Do you have any idea the mental trauma that would cause the executives? Speaking to another person so far below them on the food chain?

What could the professionals possibly know of value?
 
Eric, have you ever towed an aircraft or ride brakes across active taxi ways or runways at a busy airport? If so then you know there are many times you must move quickly. Have you ever heard of the phrase "Do Not Delay" or Expedite? You know this means only one thing and that is to move your arse now. Reasons too move quickly across active runways is usually obviously. I do not think I have to give any examples since most of us on this board know what I am talking about. As far as your comment on the Goldhofer did stop the 777 rather abruptly does not mean it is the correct way or using the correct equipment for the 777 with that much weight on-board. If the Goldhofer is able to stop a loaded 777 and create this kind of damage and bodily harm then there is a problem.

I read on a earlier comment on this thread that AA modified the Goldhofers in DFW to allow the towing of the 777 because of the extra weight was damaging the Goldhofers. Well if this is true and I am sure someone will attest to it then there lies the problem. Our Goldhofers are not designed for the 777 in the capacity we move them. Goldhofer has other models that can move heavier aircraft but AA opted for the ones we have for whatever reason. Now we have issues and AA is scratching their heads on what to do next. At what expense? Human injury, aircraft damage? Next time we may not be so lucky.
A nose gear may rip off or even worse.

Hate to think of the consequences. One big aircraft incident might wipe out all the cost savings. I hope AA puts this issue to rest and considers safety before cost. Using the right piece of equipment for the right job and properly trained people should lead to a safe operation. But no matter how safe you may be if the equipment you are using is not designed or rated for the job you are doing an accident is about to happen sooner or later.

FOR EXAMPLE:

AA BUYS THE CHEAPEST INTERIOR IN THE INDUSTRY! AND THEY WONDER WHY WE HAVE SOOOOOO MANY PROBLEMS WITH CABIN ITEMS??? ONE OF MANY....

THIS ERIC GUY HAS NOT A CLUE OF WHAT IT TAKES TO MOVE AN AIRPLANE! I'VE BEEN THERE DONE IT,AND HAD NUMEROUS FAILURES ON THE GOLDHOFER! THANK GOD THESE GUYS WERE NOT HURT WORSE!

LET'S STEP OVER A DOLLAR TO SAVE A PENNY!
 
Schleppen Sie nicht 777 mit diesem Schlepper

"Do not drag 777 with this tractor"

See I know what it says in German so I guess it is still operator error. 😱 😱

You did the same thing I did. You Googled "translations" and copied and pasted it and got the exact same translation I did. It is not operator error. It is the company putting us in something that they did not test or properly evuluate. They took the work of the manufacture who wanted to sell tractors they had that Lufthansa didn't want. Yesterdays test of the Goldhofer was on channel 5 News this morning at 06:30. It showed the windshields and reported that the company was still investigating and that the injured workers will be okay.
 
If I'm hired to do this, then where's my paycheck?..... Sorry if I have a life outside of USAviation, and it took me a few hours to bother to read this... Next time, page me if you think my opinion is so damn important. 😉



When this all started, you guys were complaining that the tractor couldn't stop the weight of the 777.

From the incident today, it sounds to me as though that's exactly what happened - it stopped.

Quickly.

Enough that these guys slammed into the windshield......

It stopped so quick that their heads slammed into the BACK windshield? I've never heard of anyone flying through the back window from a sudden stop, maybe we should consult Newton on this. Look at the picture again. The fact that their heads slammed into the back windshield corraborates the mechanics story of how the machine reacted.



The tractor clearly shouldn't be going 15 mph if it either can't stop, or stops so hard that people get hurt.

The problem apparently is that the brakes release when the computer senses too high of a load, thrusting the tractor fwd, then the brakes reapply and sets off the cycle again, tossing the occupants back and forth in the cab. The fwd thrust would be greatly amplified as all the flex from the nose gear and the fuselage acts likes a spring , throwing the tractor fwd. So when the brakes released the tractor didnt just stop decellerating, the aircraft would actually fling it fwd
.
If the training and policies/procedures didn't take that into account, the company f***ed up.

If the local safety committee allowed it to continue, they f***ed up as well.

The screwed up by not listening to the mechanics.

And no, I don't buy the argument of the company or the airport forcing you to go fast.

How do you think they got the airport to buy off on allowing them on the taxiways?

Nobody should attempt to operate a piece of equipment in a manner they feel will put them at risk. Doing so is more likely to get you into a 29F than refusing to do so.

Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Even if a supervisor or manager tries to give you a directive to drive faster than you feel is safe, directives become invalid if they involve an illegal or immoral act, or put you, other employees, or customers at a risk for injury. (please use that argument sparingly... you could still wind up in a 29F to explain declining a directive)

They were operating the tractor within its approved limits,which have recently been changed by the way. If the manufacturer and the company state that this is how its done a mechanic would be at risk if he refused to operate it accordingly.

Its unfortunate that two people were injured but maybe next time they will give mechanics concerns a little more consideration but historically thats not the case-N110.
 
Effective today. AA M&E put an alert out not to tow 777 aircraft until further notice.

Gee, if it was driver/operator error, why is AA halting 777 movements?
 
It should be noted that the Tulsa Training rep (did'nt know they had Goldhofers in Tulsa) did'nt have permission to do a panic stop demonstration from maintenance management. The 777 used was linked on a trip to LHR.
 
Effective today. AA M&E put an alert out not to tow 777 aircraft until further notice.

Gee, if it was driver/operator error, why is AA halting 777 movements?

Good question. Let's see if the company men on this site have an answer.

Could it be that the model Goldhofer is not rated for the 777 as we utilize it?
Could it be that we modified them in some way that the manufacturer is no longer liable?
Could it be that the risk of aircraft damage and bodily harm is too great of a risk?

:wacko:
 
Effective today. AA M&E put an alert out not to tow 777 aircraft until further notice.

Gee, if it was driver/operator error, why is AA halting 777 movements?

What I want to see happen now is the mechs that got hosed for following instructions be reinstated to their previous status with an apology (for gross stupidity) from the company and the DFW airport authority, plus any monies these guys lost/forfeited due to said government/corporate stupidity.

Anything less, considering the facts now in place about this POS equipment and the company's failure to read the directions will constitute a failure to represent on the part of the TWU.
 
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