Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[700UW]

 

[700UW]

My point is having someone from management present at all times will moderate and change their behavior. It works on the European carriers, ANA, JAL, Cathay, Singapore all have this and they are all unionized. The gulf carriers often have multiple managers onboard (no unions).

Josh

They dont have thousands of flights every day all over the world.
 
Is that too hard to comprehend?
 
The IAM DL FAs will never agree to let management to covered work.

Discipline is confidential and private, so where would this take place?
 
And under the law a unionized employee has the right to have a shop steward or higher rep present during any discipline or questioning, so how is that going to happen?

You wont have a shop steward or Base rep on EVERY flight.
 
You have said some stupid things before, but this tops it all.
 
So Gerry going to take money away from  you now?

 

[737823]

The IAM agreed to let non covered people in the COPS CBA at AS work the boardroom and service passenger reservations, just helped me with my upgrade and seat change at SEA for my LAX flight a few months back.

If DL hadn't agreed to an initial T/A they can hold out and push for whatever they want the union won't see any dues until a ratified agreement is reached.

Josh

 

[737823]

They dont have thousands of flights every day all over the world.
 
Is that too hard to comprehend?
 
The IAM DL FAs will never agree to let management to covered work.

Discipline is confidential and private, so where would this take place?
 
And under the law a unionized employee has the right to have a shop steward or higher rep present during any discipline or questioning, so how is that going to happen?

You wont have a shop steward or Base rep on EVERY flight.
 
You have said some stupid things before, but this tops it all.
 
So Gerry going to take money away from  you now?

Having management on flights will change their behavior. I have seen it first hand, been on AA flights with VPs, base managers and check riders. All procedures are followed on those flights.

Josh

 

[700UW]

Ramifications.
 
And DL wont be able to hold out on something like that, guess you dont understand the Section 6 process and the NMB will declare an impasse in negotiations and then CHAOS.

 

[Kev3188]

Hey Delta, you should bring some more stations back in-house. That might help too. just sayin.....

+1

...And in the meantime, we'll be glad to work towards non-economic things like an ASAP program, transparent transfer policies/awards, and a solid grievance process.
 
 

Fact: nearly all of the TWA aircraft-all 717s, 757s, and 763s left the fleet as did most of their S80s although some of the newest 1999 build MD-83s remain in the fleet today.

Josh

Fact: This is about DL and it's employees.
 
 

I believe they can give as long as it is to all. I do not believe they can take however.

This.
 

No they haven't. I mean maybe when you and Leos band of fools were running around the GO (also the worst time for employee/management relations) but now days Delta isn't like that. Again, the current unions on property have a very good relationship with Delta. Its foolish......down right stupid to hope or think Delta wouldn't work toward that for any other work group that unionizes. Delta has an advantage with its employees. Its probably the last airline that isn't just a job. Stupid to change that just because you are butt hurt that the FAs voted in a union.

Agreed. And to add to that, I think there is a real disconnect between what happens at the station(s) level, and what the C-suite *thinks* life is like. IMO, RA, BL, etc. would be appalled at if they saw some of the things that are occurring. Have representation would at least restore that feedback loop again.
 


 

Not paid to post here. Sitting outside enjoy a beautiful day.

Josh

Proving, again, that you are nothing more than a common troll. Go work on your tan already.
 
 

And you claim you are not anti-worker.
 
And they couldnt discipline on a flight without a shop steward or grievance rep on board also. (Weingarter Rights).
 
And there is no way financially nor logistically can that be done on a US carrier with thousands of flights a day.
Do you actually ever think before you post?

Clearly not, unless you count thinking of ways to get a reaction out of people.

 

[700UW]

Having management on flights will change their behavior. I have seen it first hand, been on AA flights with VPs, base managers and check riders. All procedures are followed on those flights.

Josh

Keep avoiding the process and the law.
 
Read this S L O W L Y  and try to comprehend it:
 
And under the law a unionized employee has the right to have a shop steward or higher rep present during any discipline or questioning, so how is that going to happen?
 
How is it going to be private?

How is the FAA going to view FAs not doing their job because they are being disciplined on a flight?
 
You wont have a shop steward or Base rep on EVERY flight.

 

[737823]

Again they will not conduct the discipline onboard or in the presence of customers. Merely having a known management personnel onboard will change their behavior. Discipline and meetings would take place at a later time and follow all laws and union procedures.

Josh

 

[737823]

Guess you don't know DL has extensive surveys in place for HVCs where they are asked specific questions about the F/A service I know, I am part of the program and receive questionnaires from DL after each and every flight.

Josh

 

[700UW]

Dawg,
The training expenses are minimal if it provides DL long term cost savings, a younger and more flexible workforce and other benefits like the ability to have more productivity and generally fewer illnesses which come with a younger workforce.

Maybe DL could also have a designated management F/A on each and every flight who isn't a union member that can supervise and discipline on the spot. Foreign carriers, including unionized ones like BA, LH and LX have this.

No problem for the largely PMDL crews I fly with international from BOS/JFK but many of the bitter disgruntled PMNW who don't follow the service guidelines and spend most of the flight on the jumpseat would get a nice awakening!

Josh

And you claim you are pro-worker. Bet you cant wait to snitch on someone and you dont know if they are PMDL or PMNW.
 

Again they will not conduct the discipline onboard or in the presence of customers. Merely having a known management personnel onboard will change their behavior. Discipline and meetings would take place at a later time and follow all laws and union procedures.

Josh

So which is it?
 
Clearly you are grasping at straws.

 

[700UW]

Guess you don't know DL has extensive surveys in place for HVCs where they are asked specific questions about the F/A service I know, I am part of the program and receive questionnaires from DL after each and every flight.

Josh

Do want a Kewpie doll?

 

[topDawg]

Dawg,
The training expenses are minimal if it provides DL long term cost savings, a younger and more flexible workforce and other benefits like the ability to have more productivity and generally fewer illnesses which come with a younger workforce.

Maybe DL could also have a designated management F/A on each and every flight who isn't a union member that can supervise and discipline on the spot. Foreign carriers, including unionized ones like BA, LH and LX have this.

No problem for the largely PMDL crews I fly with international from BOS/JFK but many of the bitter disgruntled PMNW who don't follow the service guidelines and spend most of the flight on the jumpseat would get a nice awakening!

Josh

Josh you are missing the point. You are simply over your head and its very clear. 
 
Again, the idea is stupid. Not only would the union never do it, its also questionable if the DOL would allow it. A lot of the airlines that have the short term FAs are in countries that aren't labor friendly. There is a reason why it hasn't happened in the US and, for the most part EU. 
 
and just FWIW Delta can't impose their will on the FAs. It doesn't work that way. 
 

And you claim you are not anti-worker.
 
And they couldnt discipline on a flight without a shop steward or grievance rep on board also. (Weingarter Rights).
 
And there is no way financially nor logistically can that be done on a US carrier with thousands of flights a day.
Do you actually ever think before you post?

its the typical MBA sitting behind the desk no grasp on how the real world works attitude. 
 
And Josh and WT are both ego people. This is all a big game to them. 
 

Leo wasn't in charge when DL and NW merged and DL gave raises to PMDL people but told PMNW people to wait for the outcome of the elections.

DL will open its wallet and that is what the FAs are after. The RR and Rx announcements will be followed by others.

The FAs particularly are very good at getting what they want without a union.

I have yet to have an actual DL FA accept my bet for their first year's dues that the IAM will be sent packing.

I'll make the bet with Kev or dawg as a stand-in if no FAs accept my offer by 10 days before the end of voting.

exactly. Delta's management isn't nearly as stupid as they were not to long ago. That would be why labor relations are so great. Even if the FAs vote in a union it would very much be like the relationship Delta has with the pilots. 
 
and why would I make that bet with you? 
 

Sure could, DL could insisnt it is part of the CBA and not reach a T/A without it. Require at least one F/A on each and every flight to be part of the management F/A force, so on domestic 738 flights have one manager and three union F/As. International longhaul one manager and considerably more union F/As it can be done.

BA does it on their vast network of short haul European and UK services and they are union. It would be innovative and go a long way to provide good consistent service.

Josh

 
 

DL an insist?
 
Ever hear of the word no?
 
Scope language would never be agreed to let management perform covered work.
 
And do you not understand the law?
If a union member is going to be called in to be disciplined by law they have the right to have union representation.
 
And DL cant tell the union who can be a union rep or not.
 
Give it a rest, no company is going to do that in the US, its not financially responsible.
 
Talk about pissing off workers, you are truly clueless.

So tell the Gerry to come up with new ideas, you arent earning your F&H paycheck.
 
Discipline is confidential and private  under the law, so where would this take place?
 
You are truly clueless.

this
 

Having management present in the aircraft remarkably changes the attitude and behavior of the crew. I've been on AA flights with HDQ people in the cabin and the service is flawless. Return flight with same crew corners were cut, F/As sitting in unoccupied F seats while on duty, eating pax meals, you know all the usual behavior on AA longhaul flights.

Josh

On who's flights? AAs? you say. 
 
but yet you are pushing for the DL FAs to have the same attitude. I'd stop if i were you....  
 

My point is having someone from management present at all times will moderate and change their behavior. It works on the European carriers, ANA, JAL, Cathay, Singapore all have this and they are all unionized. The gulf carriers often have multiple managers onboard (no unions).

Josh

question, which one of those is the size of Delta? Hell which one of those is as profitable as Delta? 
 

Ramifications.
 
And DL wont be able to hold out on something like that, guess you dont understand the Section 6 process and the NMB will declare an impasse in negotiations and then CHAOS.

Josh and WT have very little to no clue how things work. That part is painfully clear. 

 

[topDawg]

Guess you don't know DL has extensive surveys in place for HVCs where they are asked specific questions about the F/A service I know, I am part of the program and receive questionnaires from DL after each and every flight.

Josh

apples to bananas 
 

And you claim you are pro-worker. Bet you cant wait to snitch on someone and you dont know if they are PMDL or PMNW.
 
So which is it?
 
Clearly you are grasping at straws.

yeah Josh you are WTing pretty hard right now. 

 

[737823]

Dawg,
SQ F/As (in Singapore) have employment contracts. LY F/As have 5-year contracts and there is a workers committee/union. Japanese flight attendansts at NH and JL have contracta, however so get to stay and serve as onboard leads which are members of management.

Don't see how the DOL would object on the face it's not age discrimination, the company sets clear expectations going in. People could do the job for s few years, go back to school, work in corporate, the possibilities after the F/A term are endless.

Yes I have been on AA flights with senior management, base chairs and on other flights with APFA officials. The APFA treasurer is from BOS seen him on DFW-BOS flights on multiple occasions.

Josh

 

[topDawg]

Dawg,
SQ F/As (in Singapore) have employment contracts. LY F/As have 5-year contracts and there is a workers committee/union. Japanese flight attendansts at NH and JL have contracta, however so get to stay and serve as onboard leads which are members of management.

and which one of those is anything remotely comparable to Delta in size, scope and labor laws? (hint, none)
 

Don't see how the DOL would object on the face it's not age discrimination, the company sets clear expectations going in. People could do the job for s few years, go back to school, work in corporate, the possibilities after the F/A term are endless.

its not age discrimination? do you know what age discrimination is? 
 
you are telling us Delta should force its employees to sign 5 year agreement and pretty much all of your reason why are directly due to age. 
 

Yes I have been on AA flights with senior management, base chairs and on other flights with APFA officials. The APFA treasurer is from BOS seen him on DFW-BOS flights on multiple occasions.

Josh

and when it comes to labor relations Delta doesn't need to do a single thing like AA does. Not one. 
 
Which would include stupid ideas on how to hurt employees when you can have a good relationship with them. (and then do like Delta is doing and kick AA/UA/WN ass in basically every operational metric)