Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[WorldTraveler]

so Kev was wrong after all?

DL has no incentive to give any of the multiple raises and double digit profit sharing that they have given if there is no union.

DL can treat its employees including the FAs just like what AA and UA get and drag out pay raises just like WN has done.

the DL difference will be that DL won't be sending out a guide to its employees on how to succeed at dumpster diving.

no wonder NW people needed a union.

 

[700UW]

Deflect and Change, your M.O., when you cant refute the facts and reality of the situation.
 
So how many years do you want to go back?
 
Gee, was Anderson at NW when that occurred?
 
And you do realize NW was out to break all their unions?
 

 

[Kev3188]

Blue is treated differently than purple. No questions about it.

Sad, but true. Even in something as simple as looking a communications on the employee website, one can see the night and day difference.

Honestly, if they just treated us like adults and actually followed the RoTR & The Way We Fly, I think the cards would stop coming in as fast.


 
 

What makes Delta Delta is the fact that they can work with all the work groups, union or not, to come to fair agreements.

Exactly. And if they don't, then I guess all of what they've told us over the last several years is false.

And I am pretty sure Meto, Me, Kev and Baba are all in the same boat in that we want all of us to do well. Union or no union.

No question.
 

Hey Kev, 700, or anyone else who knows quick question, this is for WT cause he clearly can't get it, Do I want TechOps to vote in a union?

You do not...
 
 

I am a paid organizer?

That's funny then why am I working events?

I worked from June of 2013 till September of 2014 on the IBT raid against the IAM at US.

And like I've said before; so what if you were? It's not like it's something to be ashamed of...

And 12,000 DL FAs want a union, that's a fact.

The majority just asked for an election. That's telling.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Kev will have to tell me who authored and funded the dumpster diving book.

and if Anderson really was the author of NW's union breaking strategy, do DL people really want to get into that game?

he finished off AMFA at NW.

again, tell me how DL employees are going to fare better with a union that what they have now, esp. when you argue that Anderson was the silent voice that killed the unions at NW?

and were you wrong, Kev? If DL has spent all of that money to keep the unions out, why keep paying those prices now?

you two have done wonders to confirm exactly what I have said that DL FAs would fare WORSE with unions.

 

[700UW]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2014/04/25/delta-gets-along-fine-with-alpa-can-jetblue-do-the-same/
 

At Delta, widely recognized as the most successful U.S. airline, a unionized pilot group has formed a positive relationship with management and has played a key role in the airline’s success. ALPA President Lee Moak was the primary architect of that relationship during his six years as chairman of the Delta pilots’ master executive council.
 

 

[topDawg]

DL FAs don't want a union.

then why are they having a vote? 

 

every job has work rules. they could all be better, including at DL.

someone screen shot this.....
 
 

let's also toss out the possibility that it is now possible that with profit sharing as large as it is, DL is willing to let the FAs unionize and then cut profit sharing for everyone. A lot of pilots fear it will get cut anyway. Perhaps the cost of trying to outpay unionized employees is more than DL wants.

highly unlikely. Unless the CLT is completely full of fluff profit sharing isn't going anywhere. The basic idea behind Shared Rewards and Profit Sharing means they are here to stay. Just because Parker is an idiot doesn't mean Anderson will be. (again, this is Delta, not American) 
 
Profit sharing without a matching raise is really not going to happen. Nothing will get votes and cards turned in than taking a month-two months worth of pay away from people when they company is making 4-5-6-7 Billion a year. 
 

it is also possible that DL does not fear the effects of unions as much as it once did because the industry has consolidated as much.

bull crap. Delta doesn't want a union now as much as ever. 
 

pure speculation but the big 4 are increasingly looking very similar - with the difference being that DL runs a better operation that is better at generating revenues. that could well be maintained by paying employees just average wages.

Yeah you think we will work as hard while being treated like dirt? 
 
Hey Leo, I know its you......this stupidity is why you failed..... 
 

If DL decides that it can get what it wants without spending over a billion dollars extra on profit sharing, it will do so. It's all about the Benjamins.

Delta could cut profit sharing yesterday....they don't for a reason. 
 
Stay out of the HR world WT. You would only hurt....not help. 
 

if that's the case, then it is absolutely possible that DL will spend less on employee compensation than it does now given that DL has tried to keep its non-contract employees paid as well as they do.

Its not the case. Your hate for labor is just showing so hard right now. 
 

the pilots get paid well at Dl because they work well with the company. The same principle applies to WN. DL obviously gets what it wants from its non-union employees. playing well with the company is not a union vs. non-union thing. Giving the company what it needs to succeed is the difference.

Exactly. 
but it is impossible for the FAs to do the same? okay.... 
 

and it is also very possible that DL will keep its pilots higher paid relative to its peers while allowing non-pilot salaries to sink to the industry average.

no its not. Not unless Anderson wants unions at all work groups. 
 
and again, even then it doesn't work that way. 

 

it will indeed cost DL employees to be a part of a union - or all of the assertions that some here including Kev have made that DL pays its employees well to keep out the unions is false.

No its just that you have no idea how unions work. 
 
That is the issue here. Not kev.

 

[topDawg]

given that your basic facts are wrong, the rest of your rant is equally as disconnected.

lol this is funny. 
as normal. 
 
Hello pot...... 
 

to even suggest that I worshipped Leo Mullin is the height of union deception. You are the best example the DL FAs need for what they get when they vote for the IAM. Your footloose handling of such a statement is typical of union leadership. You fit perfectly with them.

well you post the same exact stupid labor ideas Leo had...... me thinks you must agree with him then.... 
 
 

because they work with the company to give the company a premium over their peers. same thing is true with WN's employees.

How you say this in this post
 

Kev has said for years that DL pays a premium to its people to keep the unions out. was he wrong? If the unions are in, why would they continue to pay a premium?

then go on to say this? 
 
WT do you have a degree in anything? 

 

[WorldTraveler]

good. then we agree that DL doesn't want any more unions.

so why would DL give the FAs the same thing they have now if the point is to keep the unions out?

DL either has paid a premium to keep them out and there is no incentive to continue to pay what they have had or the fundamental logic of why DL has been "nice" to its employees has been wrong.

WN plays nice with its employees for the same reason that DL does... because both companies - union or not - get more from their workers than they would get if they paid "industry average" and had industry average work rules.

If WN or DL is reduced to industry average, the pay will follow.

it's not rocket science. Economics is also a good class to expect high schoolers to pass but a few people here obviously skipped it.

 

[topDawg]

good. then we agree that DL doesn't want any more unions.

no crap. No company wants a union. 
 
That doesn't mean once they get one they will go full on stupid and try to have a terrible relationship with them due to butt hurt like you are saying Delta is going to do. 
 

so why would DL give the FAs the same thing they have now if the point is to keep the unions out?

again why does DALPA get what they get? 
 
Once you get a union you move on. Its business. you want this to be personal because if/when Delta employees vote in a union it makes you look like a jackass.
but in the real world Delta will want its union relationships like what it has with DALPA. period. That means the FAs will get an industry leading contract like the pilots got.
and again, Delta can't, as much as you wish they could, force the IAM/FAs into anything.  
 

DL either has paid a premium to keep them out and there is no incentive to continue to pay what they have had or the fundamental logic of why DL has been "nice" to its employees has been wrong.

Delta doesn't pay its employees or give them anything to be nice. It is a bribe and its as simple as that. 
Give us the operations performance.
stay out of a union or if you are in a union have a good relationship.
 
It is so simple it is amazing how you cant get it.  
 

WN plays nice with its employees for the same reason that DL does... because both companies - union or not - get more from their workers than they would get if they paid "industry average" and had industry average work rules.

but you are saying Delta is going to now dump that plan because you are butt hurt. 
 

If WN or DL is reduced to industry average, the pay will follow.

if the pay is reduced what do you think people are going to at Delta? Think I am going to bust my butt if I take a pay cut when they are making 4-5-6-7-8 billion a year? nope. 
 

it's not rocket science. Economics is also a good class to expect high schoolers to pass but a few people here obviously skipped it.

lmao. 
I have a degree in business management
I have a degree in finance
 
I have an executive masters degree. 
 
That includes classes in negotiations, strategic management, labor relations, economy and even labor law classes.
 
So please, tell us what you have degrees in......  

 

[WorldTraveler]

so they bribe the employees but when the employees do other than what is required in the bribe, DL is supposed to keep paying the bribe?

you didn't even pass the most basic logic class.

you really don't want to get into counting degrees.

Georgia let you down. Big time. I've hired GA grads.

 

[topDawg]

so they bribe the employees but when the employees do other than what is required in the bribe, DL is supposed to keep paying the bribe?

you didn't even pass the most basic logic class.

you really don't want to get into counting degrees.

Georgia let you down. Big time. I've hired GA grads.

I'm sorry, you are right, I don't want to count degrees. Since it is clear you cant even read we shouldn't bother. 
 
So exactly which part of "Delta doesn't pay its employees or give them anything to be nice. It is a bribe and its as simple as that.
Give us the operations performance.
stay out of a union or if you are in a union have a good relationship."
would the FAs not be doing if they joined the IAM?

 

[WorldTraveler]

we have no idea what kind of relationship the FAs would have with the company if they were represented by the IAM.

but you are as naïve about union relationships as you are about tool accountability if you think that DL is going to give the FAs above average pay than their peers at AA and UA, industry average work rules, and then say "well see how it works out but we're just hoping you'll be as productive as you were when there was no union."

 

[robbedagain]

Its truly a classy comedy seeing the clueless clown  act like a know it all  even going as far as saying the FAs don't want a union..   Really  so the voting is now a figmentation of our imagination     Obviously the FAs want a say in matters    Next up  ACS  

 

[topDawg]

we have no idea what kind of relationship the FAs would have with the company if they were represented by the IAM.

but you are as naïve about union relationships as you are about tool accountability if you think that DL is going to give the FAs above average pay than their peers at AA and UA, industry average work rules, and then say "well see how it works out but we're just hoping you'll be as productive as you were when there was no union."

 
I know that you don't get them to have a good relationship by trying to cut them like your saying Delta will do. 
 
Logic is something you clearly lack. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL is NOT going to pay the FAs a premium relative to their non-union peers at DL or to DL's unionized FA peers.

If you think otherwise, then I suggest you ask for a refund on your MBA.