Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[700UW]

Once again you are truly clueless on the RLA and Section 6 negotiations.

 

[700UW]

http://www.airlinefinancials.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/64.FAWages.png
 

 

[WeAAsles]

http://www.airlinefinancials.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/64.FAWages.png
 

What is not factored into this chart are the new wages that are now a part of the APFA CBA which are now 7% above the Delta payscale.

At a PS rate of 15% for the DL FA that pretty much puts the compensation at about even on the chart above but now that dynamic with an additional 7% is entirely different and I can't wait to see next years chart.

And that chart doesn't even factor in contractual workrules and benefits. Haven't heard about any AA employees having to pay over a $1000.00 deductible for any prescriptions.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

"Similarly, in International Ass'n of Machinists & Aerospace Workers v. Aloha Airlines, Inc., the Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit held that where a collective-bargaining agreement section 6 notice was filed, a disagreement over wages was a major dispute. The court stated that "[t]he purpose of the status quo provision is to impose an obligation on the parties to make every reasonable effort to negotiate a settlement and to refrain from altering the status quo until the period ends." The court concluded that "once a Section 6 notice is filed and after the collective-bargaining agreement terminates, neither party may alter the condition of employment in effect, but must maintain the 'status quo' during the course of settlement."

"Section 2, Ninth of the Railway Labor Act charges the National Mediation Board (NMB or Board) with the responsibility to conduct representation elections in such manner as shall insure the choice of representatives . . . without interference, influence, or coercion exercised by the carrier.
To ensure that it fulfills its mandate to conduct elections untainted by carrier interference, the Board applies the laboratory conditions standard to the elections it supervises. This standard requires that sterile conditions be maintained from the time the carrier becomes aware of the unions organizing drive until the election ballots have been counted. Contl Airlines/Contl Express, 21 N.M.B. 229, 249 (1994). To determine whether the carrier maintained sterile conditions that is, that the carrier refrained from contaminating the election through carrier coercion the Board examines the totality of the circumstances. Id."

Status Quo and laboratory conditions are now in effect for the Delta F/A's. Case law is well established on this and Richard Anderson knows it well from his days at Texas Air, Continental, and being Larenzo's chief counsel.

Anyone who says that Delta is going to reduce pay or cut benefits is a flat out liar. What exists now is the floor from which the F/A's will negotiate if they are successful in certifying the union and going into negotiations. They should do their own research and not listen to the fear mongering here. Go to the links provided and read the case law.

http://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1636&context=clevstlrev

http://www.pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html

http://files.ali-cle.org/thumbs/datastorage/skoobesruoc/pdf/CV039_chapter_09_thumb.pdf

 

[WorldTraveler]

that is all fine and good but you miss the point that DL could absolutely end profit sharing for ALL DL employees, give a pay raise for other employee groups to monetize their profit sharing, and leave the FAs to negotiate industry standard profit sharing which for DL FAs would result in a significant loss of pay because DL profit sharing is so much higher than it is for other airlines.

you can't both argue that DL could have changed anything at any time and now argue that they are required to maintain it for all work groups under the same terms once representation has taken place.

You cannot believe that DL will reward DL FAs for unionizing by giving them even higher wages when Kevin has repeatedly and accurately stated that DL has paid its employees a premium to the industry to keep unions out.

such thinking is the candy store mentality that unions have repeatedly used and ended up coming up far short when it comes time to deliver to the people they represent.

 

[700UW]

You still dont get it, DL cant make changes unless they are negotiated and ratified.

 

[WorldTraveler]

exactly... and nothing is negotiated yet with the FAs.

 

[robbedagain]

Now why the he!! would I be ticked off     In 98 I had the option of going to either UA DL or US or NW   I opted for US bec it at the time had far more flights and better OT options  better medical and benes  better things at that time   I chose US over any other carrier and I also chose them over DL bec of having the union involvement and I do recognize that the other 2 airlines are union.   On the other hand I would not want to work for DL given how they treat their peeps  regardless of what you say.

 

[topDawg]

that is all fine and good but you miss the point that DL could absolutely end profit sharing for ALL DL employees, give a pay raise for other employee groups to monetize their profit sharing, and leave the FAs to negotiate industry standard profit sharing which for DL FAs would result in a significant loss of pay because DL profit sharing is so much higher than it is for other airlines.

you can't both argue that DL could have changed anything at any time and now argue that they are required to maintain it for all work groups under the same terms once representation has taken place.

You cannot believe that DL will reward DL FAs for unionizing by giving them even higher wages when Kevin has repeatedly and accurately stated that DL has paid its employees a premium to the industry to keep unions out.

such thinking is the candy store mentality that unions have repeatedly used and ended up coming up far short when it comes time to deliver to the people they represent.

you miss the point that no they can't. Delta can't make drastic changes to the FAs QOL, including pay, till the vote is over. (and if they vote yes, till they have a CBA). 
 
but again, none of this matters because Delta isn't nearly stupid enough to start cutting the FAs benefits before a vote happens. That would just give the IAM the election. 
 

you still stubbornly hold onto that 33% PERCENTAGE reduction in profit sharing despite the fact that the actual dollar amount has continued to go up.

that IS precisely the type of data manipulation resulting in lies that the union is so famous for.

DL employees know full well that they are better off with DL's 16% profit sharing than any other airline employees in America.

no one, not even WN, is paying that much in profit sharing.

Since AA unions agreed to no profit sharing and will receive lower total compensation because of it, you now want to discredit those who have it.



you do realize that there are limits on tax deductions, don't you?

you can't just calculate your taxes due and then decide you won't pay your union dues.

charitable donations and medical expenses are also tax deductible and they will do a whole lot more to change the world than union dues will.

What kind of stupid logic is that? So yes, you took a pay cut but be happy about it because blah blah blah. 
 

When are you going to learn, this campaign is more about QOL issues and work rules than it is money?
 
Over 12,000 and rising have spoken!

it can't be about QOL because WT doesn't believe in QOL. Only pay. That is the only data point WT thinks is important is pay. Why? because he can use it during his pissing contests with the AA people. He can't use work rules because he doesn't know them. 
 

The same people who decried my use of "several hundred dollars per year" now admit their dues are or were at least $500/yr and they have not denied that Expressjet IAM FAs today pay $700

Simple math is that union dues are indeed the better part of $1000 per year

DL FAs will do the simple math and determine if they can be guaranteed that thei investment in dues will yield an economic return

The only guarantee is that they will send alot of their money to IAM national to support everything but FA interests

which is not anywhere close to 100M a year for the group. 
 
and RR usage rules, come on WT what are they? 

 

[WorldTraveler]

and you can't grasp that DL doesn't have to cut ANYTHING from unionized FAs if they choose to do that. All they have to do is STOP the increases that have been the norm for DL employees - but continue them for other workgroups.

and I absolutely believe in QOL.

you just don't happen to agree with the majority of your DL peers that QOL is not bad enough that they are willing to give up pay in order to approve it, which you and Kev have repeatedly said you would do.

 

[topDawg]

and you can't grasp that DL doesn't have to cut ANYTHING from unionized FAs if they choose to do that. All they have to do is STOP the increases that have been the norm for DL employees - but continue them for other workgroups

You are now assuming that the IAM is going to give a concessionary contract to a company making 4-5 BILLION a year?  
 

and I absolutely believe in QOL.

No you don't. 
 

you just don't happen to agree with the majority of your DL peers that QOL is not bad enough that they are willing to give up pay in order to approve it, which you and Kev have repeatedly said you would do.

Can you please give me one ounce of proof that is true? 
 
 
 
Still waiting for those RR limits.......

 

[WorldTraveler]

what the IAM GIVES is immaterial.

you all have been arguing for years that DL could reduce pay and benefits at any time.

now that it is obvious that they can do exactly that, you don't want to admit it.

DL doesn't have to agree to anything the IAM proposes and if they don't, DL simply has to push for arbitration and argue for industry neutral.

given the increasing salaries in the airline industry right now, it takes little time for ANY carrier to stop giving raises before any employee group falls behind its peers.

you are the ones that need to prove that DL's QOL is so bad that people are willing to trade anything economic in order to improve it.

everyone wants better QOL.

As for the RR limits, check with your amigo, Kevin. He has posted them here before.

and you still can't understand that when labor starts telling DL what DL can and cannot do to maintain its productivity, labor will very quickly fall from the position of being as well compensated that DL people are.

DL's long-term formula for success relative to AA and UA has been increased productivity.

messing with the productivity part of the equation to reduce DL's competitiveness will result in downward adjustments to DL employee salaries relative to AA and UA employees.

that is a guarantee.


btw, based on the most recent quarterly results, WN's non-fuel/specials CASM is just 6% lower than DL's. And DL's ex-fuel CASM is 4% better than UA's. we will see AA's results Tuesday but DL is fully capable of competing with whoever comes along - which also is why WN recognizes it is not worth their while to try to go head to head with DL in highly competitive markets from ATL where DL has such a clear advantage in market share and where WN has no advantage on the other end of the route or the market is not so large that WN can exist even with a fairly small subset of local passengers.

 

[700UW]

You still truly have no idea about the RLA and Section 6.

Ever hear of an impasse, a thirty day cooling off period or CHAOS?

If DL negotiates in Bad Faith there are consequences and ramifications

 

[Kev3188]

I love how the discussions have already shifted to what the F/A's will negotiate as part of their first T/A. Not just here, but on other sites as well. It's as if the NoWay howlers recognize that representation is a forgone conclusion.

 

[WeAAsles]

I love how the discussions have already shifted to what the F/A's will negotiate as part of their first T/A. Not just here, but on other sites as well. It's as if the NoWay howlers recognize that representation is a forgone conclusion.

I saw the same thing before the PSA's had voted whether to organize or not as well. It was if they already knew what the outcome of the vote was going to be and they were very excited. They were discussing items in the US CWA contract and hoping those items could be negotiated over to them as well. Right now their heads are just a little bit in the clouds as they discuss the things they want but hey nothing wrong with the joys of collective bargaining.

Maybe we should be posting some industry contracts over on the Fleet page as well so they can see what they're industry counterparts are getting?