Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[robbedagain]

he wants a seemless merger  but at same time he made clear labor peace   hint   the pilots and the FAs have joint contracts now    2 down   more to go   yes nick pick but the simple fact is whether you want to admit or not  DL can outsource parts of the ramp  all they want and whats to stop them from farming out more and more    Richard Anderson is nothing more than a typical classless clown just like DP and Jeff Smiesk of UA      They only answer to Shareholders    UA still has to get its house in order   So far the new AA is coming along better than UA   We may never know how much US saved in money from the HP/US pilots fiasco but that's in the past  and now the pilots have 1 contract.      I would rather have a contract than be an AT Will employee like DL

 

[WorldTraveler]

robbed,
DL could have shut down all of the IAM inherited cities from NW years ago - but he didn't.

It is beyond ridiculous to argue that DL is going to do something now when it hasn't done it and AA and UA are.

You are right that UA is not a steady ship yet. Neither is AA - but DP is smart enough to make things look just a little bit better than UA even though DP also does a great job of pushing problems off for another day and then having to come up with big strategic solutions - like the merger - to fix US' debt and market size issues.

you can wish what you want... the statistics overwhelmingly say that DL employees make more money than their peers at AA or UA.

there aren't many people that are going to give up a 25% increase in compensation (what DL has provided across the board in the past 2 years) just for the pleasure of having a contract that has provided half of that increase at other airlines.

 

[Kev3188]

...but the simple fact is whether you want to admit or not  DL can outsource parts of the ramp  all they want

Truth.

and whats to stop them from farming out more and more 

Nothing.

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, Kev, what is stopping them is you - and the reality that if they treat DL rampers like UA and AA have, DL will end up with the same labor relations and the same operational disaster that regularly leaves those two airlines FAR beyond DL in operational performance.

you are a professional, Kevin. I am proud of you and what you do.

DL doesn't want to reduce your job to the same low pay and outsourcing cycle that AA and UA have done.

It is absolutely true that "you get what you pay for;" DL pays its people a premium to AA and UA people - that is validated by DOT statistics and is very quickly narrowing the gap with WN.

Guess what? WN also pays its people well. WN doesn't operate at JFK and LGA which have been operational disasters this winter for everyone.... but DL people like WN people know how to light the fire to keep the operation moving when everything seems to be working against them.

You accurately made the statement that DL paid its employees a premium o keep unions out. That statement is absolutely accurate. They also pay their people a premium because the union environment at AA and UA has left those airlines far less competitive than DL has in terms of the quality of the product that DL offers.

DL is willing to pay its employees a premium for delivering quality work - which you and they do - and the profit sharing check that you just rec'd is proof that the DL system works for DL and for you.

The DOT statistics just happen to confirm the truth of DL's system compared to your peers at other airlines.

 

[700UW]

 

[WorldTraveler]

In the past, yes

Today, the American worker sees little value in unions.

If they did, membership levels wouldn't be so low...the lowest of any industrialized country

 

[700UW]

Thats why 12,000+ DL FAs have signed cards and more are coming in, that is why three more groups or more in the US Airline industry unionized last year.

The Airlines have one of the highest percentages of a unionized workforce.

 

[topDawg]

DL doesn't want to reduce your job to the same low pay and outsourcing cycle that AA and UA have done.

 

If that was remotely or even close to true Delta would have ML in large stations like SAN, MIA and CLT that are bigger than a large chunk of ML stations now. 
If that were true Delta would be outsourcing hub work (SLC/MEM) 
If that were true Delta would be handling DCI with ML in all the hubs. 
 
 
The truth, Delta doesn't dump those stations because they 1) don't want a ramp union. Nothing sends cards in faster than dumping tons of stations when you are making 4.5 billion 2) RR makes those stations operate at lower costs than what AA/UA have. 
 
Don't worry, We will get a down turn and the DGSing will flow just like it did during 7.5 and during BK. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

your last paragraph contradicts your next to the last - which is pretty accurate.

and yet despite the RR program, DL ACS personnel make more than their peers at AA and UA and there are REAL DL employees and not their subsidiary's employees at more stations than AA or UA have.

DL won't touch a thing as long as DL ramp delivers a quality product at lower costs than what DL could get with outsourcing, which even Kev has acknowledged is the case.

 

[topDawg]

your last paragraph contradicts your next to the last - which is pretty accurate.

and yet despite the RR program, DL ACS personnel make more than their peers at AA and UA and there are REAL DL employees and not their subsidiary's employees at more stations than AA or UA have.

DL won't touch a thing as long as DL ramp delivers a quality product at lower costs than what DL could get with outsourcing, which even Kev has acknowledged is the case.

no its doesn't. Learn how to read. 
I said Delta isn't going to change anything when making 4.5 billion
 
when a down turn comes and they can use the excuse of bad times they will DGS the hell out of the ramp just like they did before. 
 
 
Also please list a total comparison, work rules, health care, retirements, and pay between UA, DL and AA if you know so much about it. (betting this goes like the FA comparisons that you haven't been able to become a man and post(or admit you can't do it) 
 
what is it you said to me? oh "you don't have the guts!"

 

[WorldTraveler]

that is why the DOT accumulates total compensation including pay and benefits by workgroup.

it is on the MIT ADP site I mentioned.

It is not necessary to compare every tiny line item when the bigger picture is obvious.

and no it isn't that I don't have the guts. what I don't have is all of the data and I'm not posting something that isn't accurate.

comparing a dozen types of benefits is meaningless when total benefit and compensation values are provided.

Average compensation is difficult enough because DL has lower seniority employees than AA and UA because of all of DL's recent hiring.

Benefits get even more difficult to compare given that DL has a younger workforce and DL has been very intentional about offering early retirement to employees who are more likely to use higher cost benefits.

that is why bottom line comparisons can be made with the caveat that no one knows the average seniority and age of employees at each company and in each workgroup.

 

[700UW]

 

[700UW]

Ah World Fraudster says its ok not to compare everything.

Well everything in a CBA has a cost, the numbers you pull is about dollars, not the total cost of workrules, benefits etc...
 
Since it doesnt fit the World Fraudster narrative because in total costs AA FAs are more compensated than DL, he will never post the comparison he has been asked too for months now.

 

[topDawg]

and no it isn't that I don't have the guts. what I don't have is all of the data and I'm not posting something that isn't accurate.
 

Well nice to see you finally admit that......
so if you could stop acting like you do that would be nice..................
 

Ah World Fraudster says its ok not to compare everything.
Well everything in a CBA has a cost, the numbers you pull is about dollars, not the total cost of workrules, benefits etc...
 
Since it doesnt fit the World Fraudster narrative because in total costs AA FAs are more compensated than DL, he will never post the comparison he has been asked too for months now.

he plays the stats to fit his narrative. 
Kind of like I bring up Delta's outsourcing levels are going up (per his stats) but no no that doesn't count because of this or that 
 
 
 
 
 
or in the end..... PROFITSHARING!

 

[WorldTraveler]

uh, the US uses the Dollar as the currency.

talking about what companies spend in Dollars is absolutely relevant.

AA FAs are higher paid ON AVERAGE than DL FAs by 1.4% based on 2013 data. DL FA benefits package is more valuable that AA's. So much for the lies you spew about AA FAs getting more benefits.

you won't admit that AA's FA salaries are only very slightly higher compensated because DL has hired thousands of FAs per year for several years.

what you can't deny is that DL FAs average salaries EVEN WITH ALL OF THAT HIRING has gone up.

DL FAs have seen an 18% increase in compensation over the past 2 years ALONE. there isn't a large jet US airline in the industry that has exceeded that level.

and DL FAs got that increase WITHOUT A UNION.

I have repeatedly noted that I don't have complete data about benefits costs by item - so I don't argue it.... and you or 681 can't argue it either because you don't have it.

FURTHERMORE, if you include US FAs - who are absolutely part of AA and were in 2013, DL FAs made more in 2013 than the AA/US combined group - by almost 20% in salary and 25% in benefit costs.