Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[diamondcutter]

uh, the US uses the Dollar as the currency.talking about what companies spend in Dollars is absolutely relevant.AA FAs are higher paid ON AVERAGE than DL FAs by 1.4% based on 2013 data. DL FA benefits package is more valuable that AA's. So much for the lies you spew about AA FAs getting more benefits.you won't admit that AA's FA salaries are only very slightly higher compensated because DL has hired thousands of FAs per year for several years.what you can't deny is that DL FAs average salaries EVEN WITH ALL OF THAT HIRING has gone up.DL FAs have seen an 18% increase in compensation over the past 2 years ALONE. there isn't a large jet US airline in the industry that has exceeded that level.and DL FAs got that increase WITHOUT A UNION.I have repeatedly noted that I don't have complete data about benefits costs by item - so I don't argue it.... and you or 681 can't argue it either because you don't have it.FURTHERMORE, if you include US FAs - who are absolutely part of AA and were in 2013, DL FAs made more in 2013 than the AA/US combined group - by almost 20% in salary and 25% in benefit costs.

World fraudster you are wrong LUS fa's went from a little over 40 bucks an hr. 55.53 2 yrs!!! You don't know our contract at AA, STOP acting like you do . The total package , value of our contract is superior to DL! What will DL FA's top out rate be in 5 hrs , can you answer that . Can you? I know what I will be making!!

 

[WorldTraveler]

so the DOT is lying? DL paid them off to come up with higher average compensation?

Everyone paid them off to show that US had the lowest benefit costs for ALL workgroups?

 

[700UW]

AM Seattle - Roadshow Recap #1 (2)
By Julian Tudor
 
One of the principal messages and the one that made the most lasting impression on those who attended the Seattle roadshow on February 19th was delivered by Richie Johnsen, IAM Delta caOne of the principal messages and the one that made the most lasting impression on those who attended the Seattle roadshow on February 19th was delivered by Richie Johnsen, IAM Delta campaign manager from IAM International... We got this! We are winning! We already won! It's in the bag! It's a done deal! Delta knows it! We know it! Believe it!!
 
This is not intended to make us smug or complacent, or cocky, we still need to cross the finish line, but BELIEVE! I come across flight attendants who ask me "How is the campaign going? How close are we? Are we going to win this time??" I answer, "Yes, we got this. We will win!" The response I get back invariable is, "Gee, I hope so..." or "Gosh, that's what I wish...." I want everyone from this point on to delete the words hope, wish, dream from their vocabulary when talking about IAM, when talking about ourselves. We are way beyond that stage. Instead. talk like the winners we are.... "We are winning!" We will win!" "We won!" We need to be confident! We made history when we delivered 12,000+ cards to the NMB, we can proudly hold our heads up high. Once we exude that winning confidence, fence-sitters are going to be attracted to us like moths to a bright shining flame, we become the beacon, the IAM winning brand.... Remember, everyone wants to be on the winning team. We have to walk and talk, from here on out, like we are the winning team, because we are!! Here's a sports analogy for anyone who plays sports or even just a a fan. Before a game the winning team is all gangbusters in the locker room, pumped up, can't wait to get out on the field and play, because they know before they even take the field they're gonna win. That's us. Losing teams are sluggish, and really don't even wanna go out on the field, because they're afraid, and they make every excuse from having to play. That's "them"
 
I'm going to paraphrase Richie's speech to us which got the crowd fired up brimming with pride and confidence.....
You may ask, how do you know we already won?
 
In the last election, Delta really played up the whole "Us vs. Them" "Delta vs. Northwest" If you voted yes you were voting for Northwest, vote no for Delta. The company played it very well, or at least well enough where it worked. We lost by 350 some odd votes. This time, almost 5 years later, Delta cannot pit us against each other. We are all Delta now,we have been for 5 years. So that's gone from their union-busting playbook.
 
Let's crunch some numbers...
 
Last election: Total FAs 21,000, 13000 PMDL + 8000 PMNW. 93% voted. it was a 50/50 split with No Union winning by a margin of 350. So, 10,375 votes for union, 10625 against. Let's assume, just for the sake of making things simpler, that every single PMNW FA voted yes (even though that is not the case). That would mean only 2,375 PMDL voted yes. I'm using approximate numbers obviously, but these are pretty close to the real numbers.
 
Fast forward to 2015: We have a total of 20,500 flight attendants (again, using approximate numbers...). We delivered 12,000+ signed cards to the NMB. Roughly 60%, at the very least, want an election. At present, we have around 6,000 PMNW flight attendants left. Let's say for the sake of this discussion we assume all of them signed a card. Well, that means PMNW flight attendants only make up 50% of the signed cards, PMDL flight attendants, this time, make up the majority of FAs who signed cards, the other 6,000 of the 12,000+. That, my friends, is unprecedented and phenomenal. Delta corporate shat themselves when they did the math themselves. They know it.
 
It is clear to everyone now, that it is the pre-merger Delta flight attendants who are driving us forward to union representation. It is no longer a Northwest vs. Delta thing. Believe it!!
 
What do we need to win this election? 12,000+ cards. We need only 80% of card signers to vote yes to make up 50% + 1. We have an insurmountable lead over no votes. There is just no way that 20% of FAs who signed a card are going to flip flop and decide to vote no. Even if we assume that some FAs may have signed just to be left alone but with the intention of voting no all along, or FAs on the fence who signed but will eventually vote no.... those FAs will not make a dent in our lead, definitely not by 21% which is needed for us to lose this, Believe it!!
 
So, here is the message to fence-sitters. We got this! We are going to win! We are going to win with or without your votes. It is mathematically and statistically impossible for us to lose. Now, we can win by 51% or we can win by 70%, 75%, 80%. Basically, your "no" vote is a wasted vote, it's not gonna matter, the "yes"s are going to win regardless. So, join the winning team, join us and vote yes so that we don't just win by 51% but by 75%, so we send a message to management we are united, strong and a force to reckon with and take seriously when we negotiate our first contract.
 
Now.... do you all BELIEVE we are about to MAKE HISTORY!! ??
 
In Solidarity
Julian Tudor
IAMDelta Your Seattle Team
 
For the most accurate and up to date information on IAMDelta, please visit: www.iamdelta.net
 

 

[700UW]

http://www.iamdelta.net/2015/02/23/176-million-member-ituc-endorses-iam-delta-campaign/

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, DL did not play NW vs. DL FAs.

DL highlighted the difference between DL and NW culture.

and it is still there.

Further, what the cheerleading leader above fails to acknowledge is that DL FAs have THREE TIMES refused to vote in unions despite forcing an election - because THE ECONOMICS DO NOT FAVOR A UNION.

DL FAs and other employees are willing to use whatever technique they can to improve their economic lot... they aren't stupid.

there are way too many people including this poster who have equated sufficient cards with an endorsement of the IAM. That is ABSOLUTELY not the case.

The only history that will be made is that unionization will be defeated YET ANOTHER TIME with the IAM now being the most recent to foot the bill for a campaign that they refuse to acknowledge won't win because DL people make more than their peers at AA and UA and because DL employees are getting larger increases in compensation than any other employees at a large jet airline.

NO DL employee is stupid enough to trade the CERTAINTY of DL continuing to throw money at them - since as Kevin notes DL pays its employees a premium to keep the unions out.

There is NO CERAINTY and a great deal of risk that DL will decide to continue the pay policies that have yielded substantial benefits for DL employees compared to what they likely could end up with after a union vote.

You and the IAM continue to push mythology that say that DL will just keep shoveling money to DL FAs after they are unionized. Kev is right.

there is no reason for DL to continue to shell out money to FAs. Any FA that thinks DL will just keep throwing money at FAs after unionization will find out that they made the biggest financial mistake of their careers.

 

[700UW]

 

[700UW]

So are you calling Julie and Rich a liar?
 
You have the market cornered on that aspect.

 

[WorldTraveler]

see, it's all about a symbol for the labor movement.

The union dues of 20K plus FAs will create enough money to buy a couple new LearJets.

They are already salivating at the increased benefits FOR THE LABOR MOVEMENT.

Too bad they expect DL FAs to pay for it when the evidence is overwhelming that DL FAs have done better WITHOUT a union than their peers at other airlines have done with them.

So are you calling Julie and Rich a liar?

You have the market cornered on that aspect.

I don't care if it's the King of Siam who makes an incorrect comment.

I am beholden to no one and won't cow before them if they are incorrect.

 

[Kev3188]

In the last election, Delta really played up the whole "Us vs. Them" "Delta vs. Northwest" If you voted yes you were voting for Northwest, vote no for Delta. The company played it very well, or at least well enough where it worked. We lost by 350 some odd votes. This time, almost 5 years later, Delta cannot pit us against each other. We are all Delta now,we have been for 5 years. So that's gone from their union-busting playbook.

Not stopping them from trying, though...

 

 

It is clear to everyone now, that it is the pre-merger Delta flight attendants who are driving us forward to union representation. It is no longer a Northwest vs. Delta thing. Believe it!!

Indeed. And that's certainly true in ACS as well...
 

 

 

[WorldTraveler]

because DL employees are smart enough to know that complaining gets Ma Delta to open her pocketbook.

They aren't stupid.

it still doesn't mean the economics of paying to have a union are greater than threatening it.

The evidence in fact shows DL FAs and every other group is better off with the status quo.

 

[700UW]

When the IAM gets certified I'm going to enjoy every meltdown you will have.

 

[WorldTraveler]

As a stockholder, I will be enjoying every minute of the celebration because unionization will SAVE DL money.

You can't get thru your head that Kev is right about this... DL has paid its non-union employees a premium to be non-union.

If they choose to be unionized, that incentive is gone and the pay and scope will be just as bad as at AA and UA.

do you remember the numbers for big 3 airport compensation?

here are the numbers for 2013

AA $43,107
DL $50,057
UA $29,332
US $39,135

there are equally valid numbers for the much higher rates of compensation for DL FAs vs. their peers at other airlines..

Any DL FA who thinks that gravy train is going to continue after they get a union will be very, very disappointed - more so than about any other decision they have made in their career.

You can take that to the bank.

actually, you can't because you are not a DL employee and never will be.

 

[robbedagain]

ill join you 700   thatll be a blast to see  🙂

 

[robbedagain]

Kev  I cant wait til ACS gets to the point of having an election  hopefully an announcement will commence soon  like real soon bro   good luck

 

[700UW]

And the Numbers for 2013 are in pay:
 
AA:  $51,628   http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2013%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Productivity/Individual%20Employee%20Data/American%20Airlines%20Employee%20Data%20and%20Analysis.htm
 
DL: $47,832  http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2013%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Productivity/Individual%20Employee%20Data/Delta%20Airlines%20Employee%20Data%20and%20Analysis.htm
 
UA: $46,946  http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2013%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Productivity/Individual%20Employee%20Data/United%20Airlines%20Employee%20Data%20and%20Analysis.htm
 
US: $40,809  http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2013%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Productivity/Individual%20Employee%20Data/US%20Airways%20Employee%20Data%20and%20Analysis.htm
 
And for kicks, the CO FAs under the IAM CBA with CO in 2011 made more than those listed:
 
CO:  $59, 514  http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2013%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Productivity/Individual%20Employee%20Data/Continental%20Airlines%20Employee%20Data%20and%20Analysis.htm
 
This is straight from the MIT Airline Data Project.
 
Are being World Fraudster again?