Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.
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You dont work something out, you cant renegotiate your CBA before the amendable date without the approval of the membership. If the company violates the CBA you file a grievance, that is how it is handled.
Its quite clear you have zero idea on how the RLA, Collective Bargaining nor how the Grievance Procedures work.
You prove your ignorance.
I will give a few examples:
At US the IAM for M&R had CBA language that if any other unionized group gets a 401k match, that the IAM M&R will get it also. They matched the FAs and denied to match the IAM, we filed a grievance, went to arbitration and the IAM and its CBA language prevailed, man that was a nice check into my 401k as long as anyone else who from M&R participated in the 401k.
At US we filed a grievance in regards to the HMO and what US was charging, we filed a grievance and it went to arbitration. The IAM and its CBA prevailed, man everyone was happy with their nice refund checks we all got!
At US we filed a grievance that the company was outsourcing meal carts to be fixed, we filed a grievance and won, the cart shop employees got a nice check for the CBA being violated.
Shall I continue?
Its quite clear you have zero idea on how the RLA, Collective Bargaining nor how the Grievance Procedures work.
You prove your ignorance.
I will give a few examples:
At US the IAM for M&R had CBA language that if any other unionized group gets a 401k match, that the IAM M&R will get it also. They matched the FAs and denied to match the IAM, we filed a grievance, went to arbitration and the IAM and its CBA language prevailed, man that was a nice check into my 401k as long as anyone else who from M&R participated in the 401k.
At US we filed a grievance in regards to the HMO and what US was charging, we filed a grievance and it went to arbitration. The IAM and its CBA prevailed, man everyone was happy with their nice refund checks we all got!
At US we filed a grievance that the company was outsourcing meal carts to be fixed, we filed a grievance and won, the cart shop employees got a nice check for the CBA being violated.
Shall I continue?
WorldTraveler
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no, you not only don't need to continue, 700 but you really should not.
EVERY union has had a stack of grievances tossed out as part of a CBA or something else the company wants. TO hold onto textbook theory and pretend that companies are forced to come anywhere close to honoring a true grievance process and paying the value lost is about as naïve as one could be about the labor movement.
The reason why you should not continue is because you gloss over the hundreds of grievances that US or any other union did not get properly settled for true value.
no one is punishing anyone, dawg.
As much as some want to hold onto the grievance process as evidence that unions have so much power, history of unions not just at DL but everywhere else shows that those grievances are rarely settled for the value of the actual of the broken contract.
and event the DL-DALPA amendment for the VS JV shows that the company and the union realize that business changes and the company is not going to agree to something that doesn't give the company the freedom to do what is financially right for the business.
DL would be in balance with the AF/KL JV if AZ had not been added. That is a fact.
DL was not going to pass up adding AZ to the JV agreement.
The grievance process is just one more example of where unions think they can drive the ship when it is clear that companies have had great success in running roughshod over the process and doing what they want to do = while non-union employees have fared far better without all those supposed "protections"
EVERY union has had a stack of grievances tossed out as part of a CBA or something else the company wants. TO hold onto textbook theory and pretend that companies are forced to come anywhere close to honoring a true grievance process and paying the value lost is about as naïve as one could be about the labor movement.
The reason why you should not continue is because you gloss over the hundreds of grievances that US or any other union did not get properly settled for true value.
no one is punishing anyone, dawg.
As much as some want to hold onto the grievance process as evidence that unions have so much power, history of unions not just at DL but everywhere else shows that those grievances are rarely settled for the value of the actual of the broken contract.
and event the DL-DALPA amendment for the VS JV shows that the company and the union realize that business changes and the company is not going to agree to something that doesn't give the company the freedom to do what is financially right for the business.
DL would be in balance with the AF/KL JV if AZ had not been added. That is a fact.
DL was not going to pass up adding AZ to the JV agreement.
The grievance process is just one more example of where unions think they can drive the ship when it is clear that companies have had great success in running roughshod over the process and doing what they want to do = while non-union employees have fared far better without all those supposed "protections"
Back this up with facts, oh wait you cant, because you would rather, lie, post misinformation and threats.WorldTraveler said:
You are lying once again, I can post hundreds of successful grievances.
You made it quite clear, in your Leo Mullin type response, the beatings will continue till the moral improves.
You are quite clueless on the RLA, Section 6 and the grievance procedure, you continue to show this with each post.
Kev3188
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This shouldn't be news to anyone here?700UW said:
Its not news, what is unbelievable that he has the audacity to post lies, misinformation and threats, to people who see through his BS and will call him out every single time he posts lies, misinformation and threats.Kev3188 said:
I see he has been reporting people to the mods for saying the two words world fraudster, but yet he can call others by improper screen names, I call that a hypocrite.
Kev3188
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Source, please.WorldTraveler said:
BTW, can anyone tell me what avenues of recourse ACS employees have available to them should they find themselves on the wrong side of excessive/inaccurate/arbitrary discipline?
How about if management acts against a policy/procedure currently outlined in any of the company's manuals?
WorldTraveler
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first, my thanks to the moderators for nipping 700's name calling in the bud.
all of us have user names which we have selected. If we want to be called something else, we'll notify the board members.
second, I have never said that unions haven't won lots of grievances. What I have said and which you can't deny is that there are many grievances that have sat at the airline and been traded away as part of a larger negotiation and which has resulted in dozens of cases being given nowhere near the value they would have been if the company had been forced to follow the CBA in the first place.
why do you think the company broke the CBA? because the cost of breaking it was or will be less than what they would have if they followed the CBA.
and, Kevin, you might explain to us why unions are so against annual performance reviews while DL gives one to every employee (at least annual) so that the percentage of DL employees who are terminated is less than at other airlines. and the same WRITTEN counseling process exists WHENEVER job performance issues arise.
and when you answer that question then it becomes obvious why DL employees not only don't get terminated with anywhere near the frequency that they do at other airlines but also why all of these supposed cases of "being on the wrong side of mgmt.'s favor" really don't amount to anything even when they go to court.
DL employees are provided with the blueprint for what they need to do to succeed, are told when they get off track, and then when they are truly off track it cannot be called a capricious or surprise action by the company.
all of us have user names which we have selected. If we want to be called something else, we'll notify the board members.
second, I have never said that unions haven't won lots of grievances. What I have said and which you can't deny is that there are many grievances that have sat at the airline and been traded away as part of a larger negotiation and which has resulted in dozens of cases being given nowhere near the value they would have been if the company had been forced to follow the CBA in the first place.
why do you think the company broke the CBA? because the cost of breaking it was or will be less than what they would have if they followed the CBA.
and, Kevin, you might explain to us why unions are so against annual performance reviews while DL gives one to every employee (at least annual) so that the percentage of DL employees who are terminated is less than at other airlines. and the same WRITTEN counseling process exists WHENEVER job performance issues arise.
and when you answer that question then it becomes obvious why DL employees not only don't get terminated with anywhere near the frequency that they do at other airlines but also why all of these supposed cases of "being on the wrong side of mgmt.'s favor" really don't amount to anything even when they go to court.
DL employees are provided with the blueprint for what they need to do to succeed, are told when they get off track, and then when they are truly off track it cannot be called a capricious or surprise action by the company.
topDawg
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No I mean the company agrees to a contractWorldTraveler said:
then says **** you I am not going to follow it, I do what I want.
and then you tell me its good for employees.
and then you would be screaming from the roof tops if the pilots say did a sick out or something along those lines. Even though its the same. exact. thing.
I will say this, this is also on Washington. Not that DALPA has the balls, but employees should be able to walk if the company doesn't follow the contract. I bet if the pilots went on strike Delta would find a away to get with-in its scope real quick.
Well it starts with none.Kev3188 said:
then some more none
finally none.
WorldTraveler
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no, dawg, it is the product of a contentious labor -mgmt. environment that leaves employees WORSE OFF than those who have no CBAs. and companies' success in getting their way regardless of whether they screw the employees or not.
Witness Allegiant pilots this week. They say the company changed the status quo, tried to strike, and a judge stopped it.
It is highly doubtful there will ever be a strike involving any of the big 4 US airlines any more because they are all too large.
If judges have stopped AA employees from striking before the merger because of the impact to the economy, then there is no prayer than any labor union will succeed at being able to strike now.
All of those mergers have removed one of labor's biggest tools to get what they want.
It ain't hard to just let the grievances stack up and then settle them for chump change given that reality.
Witness Allegiant pilots this week. They say the company changed the status quo, tried to strike, and a judge stopped it.
It is highly doubtful there will ever be a strike involving any of the big 4 US airlines any more because they are all too large.
If judges have stopped AA employees from striking before the merger because of the impact to the economy, then there is no prayer than any labor union will succeed at being able to strike now.
All of those mergers have removed one of labor's biggest tools to get what they want.
It ain't hard to just let the grievances stack up and then settle them for chump change given that reality.
You still clearly dont understand Section 6, the RLA and Collective Bargaining.
Of course they cant strike, they havent been released into a thirty cooling off period, and the IBT knows this.
Keep up the lies, misinformation and threats, your typical M.O.
Of course they cant strike, they havent been released into a thirty cooling off period, and the IBT knows this.
Keep up the lies, misinformation and threats, your typical M.O.
WorldTraveler
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no, I clearly understand what happens in REAL LIFE even while you drone on about labor theory which has repeatedly been shown to be walked all over by companies
No you dont, you lie, you post misinformation and threats, ok Leo Mullin.
And Myself, and Kevin are still waiting for your proof to back up your statements, about grievances being thrown away when getting a new CBA.
You wont answer as we know you made it up once again, how stupid you must be to post a fabrication and not expect to be called out on it.
And you also didnt answer Kevin about what protections ACS have at DL in the situations he posted.
But what does Allegiant and its pilots have to do with this topic?
That would be nothing more than you throwing out distractions when you were caught in a lie once again.
And Myself, and Kevin are still waiting for your proof to back up your statements, about grievances being thrown away when getting a new CBA.
You wont answer as we know you made it up once again, how stupid you must be to post a fabrication and not expect to be called out on it.
And you also didnt answer Kevin about what protections ACS have at DL in the situations he posted.
But what does Allegiant and its pilots have to do with this topic?
That would be nothing more than you throwing out distractions when you were caught in a lie once again.
WorldTraveler
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no, I absolutely do understand that mgmt. has done a remarkable job at walking all over the labor movement.
and I threaten no one. You just hide behind the "threats" label because it hides the fact that I know exactly what happens in real life despite what you say happens in theory.
If labor was even half as successful at doing what you claim it does, there would be swarms of people joining labor unions instead of leaving them.
and since you hang with Kev, would you please ask him to teach you how to use "myself" since he rarely makes a grammatical error in his writing?
It is a REFLEXIVE pronoun and cannot be used as the subject of a sentence as you have done here and consistently do.
I can listen to your union propaganda far longer than I can tolerate watching you use "myself" incorrectly.
and I threaten no one. You just hide behind the "threats" label because it hides the fact that I know exactly what happens in real life despite what you say happens in theory.
If labor was even half as successful at doing what you claim it does, there would be swarms of people joining labor unions instead of leaving them.
and since you hang with Kev, would you please ask him to teach you how to use "myself" since he rarely makes a grammatical error in his writing?
It is a REFLEXIVE pronoun and cannot be used as the subject of a sentence as you have done here and consistently do.
I can listen to your union propaganda far longer than I can tolerate watching you use "myself" incorrectly.
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