Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[WorldTraveler]

thank you, sir.

as I expected. but honestly how many people were left in MEM cargo?

I'm actually more surprised that SLC is losing DL employees in cargo given the CDG and HNL flights and the coming AMS flight...

 

[Kev3188]

Not sure, but any cut is one too many...

 

[737823]

Not sure, but any cut is one too many...

I'm sure deep down underneath some of the activists are happy to see these cuts as they hope they will instill fear and get people to sign cards.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

agreed, Kev... but there does come a point at which the economics of maintaining a department in a city that hasn't seen a widebody or int'l flight in years have to meet reality.

I know, I am just a cold, calculating man of economics...

Josh,
I'm sure there are multiples more union card carrying UA FAs who are affected by UA's decision to close its SEA base than are involved with the DL MEM move.

 

[topDawg]

 

And what protections does the DL employees at those stations have?

 none. Delta can do anything they wanna do. 
 

DL employees have the same types of protection as other airline employees EXCEPT that they cannot bump an unimpacted employee out of their job.

which is pretty big protection. 
 
having said that Delta employees have whatever protection Delta feels like it wants to give on that day. So in other words, they have no protection at all. 
 
and of course no such thing as SCOPE so Delta can outsource as much as it wants. 
 

and many of those employees can usually be protected in the same city in another department - something that few other airlines can say.

huh? At Delta you have a job.......well basically if Delta wants to let you. 
at OALs you have a job because your contract says you do. 
 
Delta could dump these people if they wanted, not a damn thing anyone would be able to do about it. 
 

DL DOES provide protection including a list of open stations.

They are going to in this case, but thats because they are dumping these people just to do it. 
 

And none of this changes anything in Josh's statement that DL has its OWN employees in more stations in the US than AA, UA, or US.

Look at this hand while I slap you with the other. 
 
Oh and its funny how you say that but when someone compares employee profitable things these airlines do in house it just doesn't count. (example, remind us how many overhauls Delta does in-house compared to those airlines.....)
 

given that AA and UA have closed DOZENS of their cities to below wing personnel over the past two years, closing just one department is pretty small potatoes.

AA and UA haven't been posting the numbers Delta has. Delta is setting records, cutting things that are basically meaningless at a point in time like this is just spitting on employees for the hell of it. Its a dick move. Karma hopefully does it thing here. 
 

oh, and the affected employees still got and will get profit sharing.

 Your so...... 
 
I hope you have to deal with something like this in your life WT. I really do. You need to be humbled. 
These are people that could have to move (and if they do that just burned the profit sharing check) and even worse, this could cost people's their families. 
Talking about that stupid profit sharing check and rubbing that in people's faces show exactly the kind of person you really are. I only hope that karma can come around and let you have it. 
 

Hope those PS checks cover the costs of moving...

BTW, SLC was farmed out before, and the performance was awful. Eventually, DL listened to it's people & reopened it. That's per a DL retiree from there, so take it for what it's worth.

 Hopefully it fails as normal for Delta's outsourcing of work. Of course it will shift to 17 other vendors before Delta admits they screwed up. (or move it to DGS and not care about the performance)  
 
 

If you believe that DL employees have no protection, then not only are you posting lies but you are throwing in a whole lot of negativity into a discussion which could be informative among people who can bring the facts to the table.

What protection does any non-union employee have exactly WT? please explain that to us. 
 

Not sure, but any cut is one too many...

Any time a company is sending out hub work when they are going to make billion in profit its compete and total horse s**t. 
 
Once again, Don't trust the company. Your a number in good times and bad....... sad really.
 
 
man this pisses me off. I was going to give Delta credit for the news those of us in MX got (or are getting) but as always, they have to take after they give.

 

[WorldTraveler]

typical union dribble.

as much as you want to point to the piece of paper that unionized employees have, DL employees have far better pay and PROVEN job protection than their peers at other legacy carriers.

DL has its employees in more locations than AA or UA and has cut far fewer stations than have AA or UA.

...

if you don't think you are a number at any company, then you are delusional.

If you want a sense of self-worth and trust, don't look for any other person or organization to provide it for you.

Your self-worth, trust, and value comes from you and you alone - unless you also want to believe in the Divine.

 

[topDawg]

typical union dribble.

as much as you want to point to the piece of paper that unionized employees have, DL employees have far better pay and PROVEN job protection than their peers at other legacy carriers.

DL has its employees in more locations than AA or UA and has cut far fewer stations than have AA or UA.

...

if you don't think you are a number at any company, then you are delusional.

If you want a sense of self-worth and trust, don't look for any other person or organization to provide it for you.

Your self-worth, trust, and value comes from you and you alone - unless you also want to believe in the Divine.

so you aren't going to answer my question as normal eh? more typical WT dribble. 
 
Ill ask again, please tell us what protections Delta employees have and how these protections are enforced?
 
 
 
 
Oh and the old Delta, before awesome people like yourself made management did care about employees. They still say they do but this shows its just more horse crap. 

 

[robbedagain]

kev  dawg thanks for proving my point    youre far better protected with a scope in a union contract  vs being an at will employee like DL

 

[Airlinelifer]

Well even with that cut DL will have 43 ramp and 15 cargo stations more than any US carrier.

AA TWU is the five hubs only.

And Rich Delaney IAM 141 gave away cargo through an LOA in summer 2012.

Josh

Well even with that cut DL will have 43 ramp and 15 cargo stations more than any US carrier.

AA TWU is the five hubs only.

And Rich Delaney IAM 141 gave away cargo through an LOA in summer 2012.

Josh

"DL will have 43 ramp......"
Thank You NWA for having had the majority of their stations staffed with mainline rampers.

 

[737823]

That was then and this is now. NWA has been gone since 01/2010, the IAM has been decertified since 11/2010, this is Delta. NWA and the IAM are no longer in the picture.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

...And yet despite the attempts at ethnic cleansing, the legacy lives on...

 

[Kev3188]

AA and UA haven't been posting the numbers Delta has. Delta is setting records, cutting things that are basically meaningless at a point in time like this is just spitting on employees for the hell of it. Its a dick move. Karma hopefully does it thing here.

^This^

 

[WorldTraveler]

first of all, UA has NOT been posting financial results anywhere close to what DL has been posting.

second, for someone who supposedly studied business at UGa, dawg seems clueless to the financial reality that governs companies.

It doesn't make ANY sense to continue to employ a workgroup at MEM that doesn't produce the revenues necessary to justify itself. MEM hasn't had a widebody or int'l flight for years which means most of the cargo is either Dash (which I believe can also be sold at the ticket counter) or HRs (remains not resources).

As I said, I'm a little more surprised at SLC but Kev says there is a history there which we clearly don't know.

And as Kev also notes and I fully expect, the SLC employees can be protected in other depts. likely with little to no movement in pay.

What I find absolutely fascinating, dawg, is that you feel it is your responsibility to harp on union issues involving other employee groups since union efforts in Tech Ops have NEVER amounted to enough to move the needle despite the fact that mechanics at most airlines are one of the easiest workgroups to unionize.
why is it that you have to throw out non-truths for the pilots and rampers esp since the pilots have a union which is what you think the rest of DL employees have and yet you don't think they are capable of standing up for themselves?

and, Kev, given that SLC is a PMDL station and CVG was larger than MEM before both CVG and MEM were cut, how is DL engaging in anything other than making tough business decisions?

and, if the pilots are correct that DL is getting 4 more gates at SEA and DL's growth at LAX is pushing DL to the size of PMAA, is it not possible that DL is further growing in the west instead of the central US hubs where DL has more than enough presence?

I know I am just a cold, calculating person of business but successful businesses DO and ALWAYS WILL make decisions that maximize their profits and increase their efficiency including with how their employees. The key for employees is how well those businesses position their employees to win along with the company. If WN can close 20 cities since their merger and cut over 100 flights/day at ATL, it is hard to argue that unions can avoid a company as well run as WN is from doing the same thing that DL is doing on a far, far smaller scale.

 

[Kev3188]

 

And as Kev also notes and I fully expect, the SLC employees can be protected in other depts. likely with little to no movement in pay.

That's an awful assumptive conclusion to jump to.

But just to tease it out, let's assume for a second that it is correct. If everyone simply moves across the airfield, then there will be zero savings from payroll, and it makes even less sense to close the place.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL does not as a policy reduce pay if an employee is involuntarily moved from one dept. to another.

and as for part 2, DL's motivation with putting employees in the dept. where resources are needed is no different than when DL made the decision to quit flying widebody aircraft to Florida and instead redeploy them on int'l routes. DL moved 777s to DTW for Asian flying because there was a greater potential to use those aircraft more efficiently and for greater potential for financial gain. Given that DL's int'l operation from DTW is larger than it was with NW, it is hard to argue that DL wasn't interested in using its resources in the best profit-motivated manner.

And SLC mainline IS growing because of DL's focus on the west and as part of DL's overall shift in flying from regional carriers to mainline.

So, the chances are very high that the cargo employees will be accommodated on the ramp - likely where they have worked before.

I am all for making sure that employees are well protected but no union and no company that has profit as a motive can maintain assets including employees in places where they cannot maximize the financial performance of their employer. Airline history is full of examples of unions which tried to force artificial, uneconomic restraints on employers only to result in a a far larger and more painful correction further down the road.