Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.
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robbedagain
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agree there E of course he claims the FAs will LOSE the UNION However I have yet to hear how he will respond when the day comes that the IAM is announcing they have been elected to REPRESENT THE FAs at the mighty ole widget Will DL then throw one of those famous frivolous lawsuits similar to the AA merger and the slots...
WorldTraveler
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eolesen said:
eolesen said:
you've said that for years, E.
you can't stand that someone else might have something else to say and you won't be there with your retort.
you are the cancer that was left undiagnosed and untreated for years here and now that you and the people here find out who deadly cancer is when left untreated, you want to point the finger to me
and who said that the FAs were being hysterical and resorted to tantrums?Kev3188 said:
if those are words you use, then you have already characterized the DL FA group.
UNIONS have lost THREE elections at DL already, Kev. COUNT THEM. THREE.
were those all just tantrums and histrionics?
or was it that DL FAs have figured out that they are better off threatening a union than actually having one?
sure it is, brother.
And unions are in the upswing in the industry, the last several campaigns in the industry were successful.
And 12,000 cards is not an easy task, it was a monumental task that the DL FAs accomplished, thats 12,000!
And 12,000 cards is not an easy task, it was a monumental task that the DL FAs accomplished, thats 12,000!
WorldTraveler
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and the reason why unions are on the upswing is because the LCCs and ULCCs which have fought hard to keep their costs down took advantage of their employees by keeping their pay down.
DL came out of BK with a winning business strategy which has repeatedly been shown to produce top of industry results and DL was very, very quick to share those profits with its employees in the form of both increased scale pay but also profit sharing.
Every single one of the airlines that has seen an increase in unions had either very strong and consistent profits or were investing in everything to build the company except the employees.
and you and no one else has still been able to answer the question as to what incentive DL has to continue to pay its employees above average salaries and to continue to increase pay and profit sharing once a union comes in and gives them industry standard union productivity.
the simple answer is that industry standard productivity will result in industry standard compensation.
The reason why DL pilots and WN employees receive well above industry standard compensation is because they have figured out how to align their interests with the company's success.
DL's non-union employees have enjoyed that same level of compensation because the company was able to craft the terms of employment to ensure DL's success.
If you or they think it was so bad, then they should vote for a union but they will also vote for an end to the compensation model which the company has used.
There is no way that a new union will be able to demonstrate that it is capable of aligning the FAs' interests with that of the company as the pilots have been able to demonstrate.
thus, the company will have no choice but to stop the increases in compensation and the growth in profit sharing for DL FAs that have benefitted ALL DL employees and reduce the FAs to industry average until they prove that they, like DL's non-contract employees, DL pilots, and WN employees have generated well above industry average results.
DL came out of BK with a winning business strategy which has repeatedly been shown to produce top of industry results and DL was very, very quick to share those profits with its employees in the form of both increased scale pay but also profit sharing.
Every single one of the airlines that has seen an increase in unions had either very strong and consistent profits or were investing in everything to build the company except the employees.
and you and no one else has still been able to answer the question as to what incentive DL has to continue to pay its employees above average salaries and to continue to increase pay and profit sharing once a union comes in and gives them industry standard union productivity.
the simple answer is that industry standard productivity will result in industry standard compensation.
The reason why DL pilots and WN employees receive well above industry standard compensation is because they have figured out how to align their interests with the company's success.
DL's non-union employees have enjoyed that same level of compensation because the company was able to craft the terms of employment to ensure DL's success.
If you or they think it was so bad, then they should vote for a union but they will also vote for an end to the compensation model which the company has used.
There is no way that a new union will be able to demonstrate that it is capable of aligning the FAs' interests with that of the company as the pilots have been able to demonstrate.
thus, the company will have no choice but to stop the increases in compensation and the growth in profit sharing for DL FAs that have benefitted ALL DL employees and reduce the FAs to industry average until they prove that they, like DL's non-contract employees, DL pilots, and WN employees have generated well above industry average results.
Its not the same DL that you left (oops I mean took the money and ran) from DL eight years ago.
Its totally different and 12,000 cards is a monumental task that the DL FAs accomplished.
You were wrong about gaining cards and you will be wrong on the vote outcome.
So the unionized pilots receive a premium but yet DL will punish the FAs if they unionize, once again you make threats and you arent a DL Labor Relations person.
Its totally different and 12,000 cards is a monumental task that the DL FAs accomplished.
You were wrong about gaining cards and you will be wrong on the vote outcome.
So the unionized pilots receive a premium but yet DL will punish the FAs if they unionize, once again you make threats and you arent a DL Labor Relations person.
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12K cards reflects that DL's FA workforce is larger than it has ever been.
It is a testament to the fact that DL FAs are great negotiators.
DL won't PUNISH anyone. It will require that any work group that changes its relationship with the company will have to prove that they will continue what has allowed the company to succeed.
even by your and others' statements, the fallback is for DL to be forced to adopt industry average.
DL will match industry average work rules with industry average pay UNTIL a unionized FA group can prove that they produce ABOVE average results for the company.
there is no economic or rational basis for believing that DL FAs will only add on to what they have today - which is the flawed propaganda which the IAM and its supporters on this site have been pushing for years.
DL FAs will not risk their financial futures on giving up the above average compensation in both growth and absolute terms just to "have a voice"
Even among unionized airline employees, the overall theme is that they want to receive the most amount of money they can receive for their work and they don't care how they do it.
the notion that they are willing to give up compensation in absolute or growth terms in order to gain QOL or a voice is absolutely unsupported.
It is a testament to the fact that DL FAs are great negotiators.
DL won't PUNISH anyone. It will require that any work group that changes its relationship with the company will have to prove that they will continue what has allowed the company to succeed.
even by your and others' statements, the fallback is for DL to be forced to adopt industry average.
DL will match industry average work rules with industry average pay UNTIL a unionized FA group can prove that they produce ABOVE average results for the company.
there is no economic or rational basis for believing that DL FAs will only add on to what they have today - which is the flawed propaganda which the IAM and its supporters on this site have been pushing for years.
DL FAs will not risk their financial futures on giving up the above average compensation in both growth and absolute terms just to "have a voice"
Even among unionized airline employees, the overall theme is that they want to receive the most amount of money they can receive for their work and they don't care how they do it.
the notion that they are willing to give up compensation in absolute or growth terms in order to gain QOL or a voice is absolutely unsupported.
Flawed Propaganda?
Really?
You talk out of both sides of your mouth.
You have made many threats to the DL's FAs and what will DL do to them.
AA's FAs make DL+7% in wages, that is guaranteed and cant be taken away, unlike DL's PS which can be gone, just like they reduced it 33%.
Really?
You talk out of both sides of your mouth.
You have made many threats to the DL's FAs and what will DL do to them.
AA's FAs make DL+7% in wages, that is guaranteed and cant be taken away, unlike DL's PS which can be gone, just like they reduced it 33%.
WorldTraveler
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the labor movement may have been the principal movement but it was hardly the only.
It is not lost that the location where Dr. King's ministry was most headquartered is just miles from DL's HDQ.
DL has done a better job of keeping its employees' compensation above average for longer than any of its unionized peer airlines and that includes WN which didn't even exist for the first 40 years or more of DL's existence.
there is no threat, 700.
It is a guaranteed reality of the labor environment that labor gets paid for what they produce; changing the type of working relationship will result in a RESET of the type of compensation model which the company has used in increasing compensation for FAs in the past.
And just as you do with so many other stats, you are INACCURATELY equating a reduction in the PS accrual percentages with a reduction in actual profit sharing payout.
The exact opposite happened. DL increased the amount of actual dollars paid out in the PS program while reducing the percentage.
despite what you and the union propaganda machine would like to argue, DL has INCREASED pay and compensation including PS for DL FAs and done so more frequently and in greater amounts than for any other airline.
It is not lost that the location where Dr. King's ministry was most headquartered is just miles from DL's HDQ.
DL has done a better job of keeping its employees' compensation above average for longer than any of its unionized peer airlines and that includes WN which didn't even exist for the first 40 years or more of DL's existence.
there is no threat, 700.
It is a guaranteed reality of the labor environment that labor gets paid for what they produce; changing the type of working relationship will result in a RESET of the type of compensation model which the company has used in increasing compensation for FAs in the past.
And just as you do with so many other stats, you are INACCURATELY equating a reduction in the PS accrual percentages with a reduction in actual profit sharing payout.
The exact opposite happened. DL increased the amount of actual dollars paid out in the PS program while reducing the percentage.
despite what you and the union propaganda machine would like to argue, DL has INCREASED pay and compensation including PS for DL FAs and done so more frequently and in greater amounts than for any other airline.
For a numbers guy you cant grasp the facts.
10%<15%.
Bottom line is the payout was 15% the DL employees would have gotten a BIGGER payout, the PS was reduced by 33%. That is a fact you cant dispute.
So stop the lies and misinformation already.
10%<15%.
Bottom line is the payout was 15% the DL employees would have gotten a BIGGER payout, the PS was reduced by 33%. That is a fact you cant dispute.
So stop the lies and misinformation already.
Kev3188
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Man, there's a lot of flawed assumptions here...
Let's also remember that the IAMAW was founded "just miles" from DL HQ.
Let's also remember that the IAMAW was founded "just miles" from DL HQ.
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and again you inaccurately assume that the cut in the PS percentage would have translated into a cut in the actual dollar amount of PS.
further, the DL pilots voted to monetize their profit sharing in the same percentage - just exactly what the co. did for the rest of the employee groups - and what AA employees say they want.
there is no doubt that ALL employees want the most amount of money and they want it with the least amount of risk.
the difference is that DL's profit sharing payout will far exceed the amount of pay raises that Parker is willing to pay out to AA employees.
btw - wanna guess whether DL profit sharing will exceed $1 BILLION this year?
which makes it all the more of an embarrassment that they were shut out so many times post merger and will be even more of an embarrassment if it is shown that the DL FAs have played the IAM just like the did the AFA - get the benefit of more pay and compensation but stay far away from union representation.
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