Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.
- Thread starter 700UW
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Corn Field
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of course 700 returns to his usually scheduled propaganda despite the fact that he bought into Kev's lie and endorsed it is the Gospel.
Kev was wrong and 700s case has been built on flimsy lies as well.
the IAM was voted out as the union for NW maintenance and lost one representation election after another when DL and NW merged because ALL DL people including PMNW people who actually looked at the data know that:
PMDL FAs fared better in BK and ended up higher compensated than their PMNW FA peers.
It was only the DL merger that brought NW FAs up to DL pay levels.
Laura Glading was right in that she has chased and is still chasing DL FA pay levels. Too bad the IAM apologists aren't as smart as Laura Glading to know that the IAM left NW FAs lower paid that their PMDL counterparts.
to somehow think that the IAM can achieve now with what they failed to do before requires a healthy dose of - insanity.
Kev was wrong and 700s case has been built on flimsy lies as well.
the IAM was voted out as the union for NW maintenance and lost one representation election after another when DL and NW merged because ALL DL people including PMNW people who actually looked at the data know that:
PMDL FAs fared better in BK and ended up higher compensated than their PMNW FA peers.
It was only the DL merger that brought NW FAs up to DL pay levels.
Laura Glading was right in that she has chased and is still chasing DL FA pay levels. Too bad the IAM apologists aren't as smart as Laura Glading to know that the IAM left NW FAs lower paid that their PMDL counterparts.
to somehow think that the IAM can achieve now with what they failed to do before requires a healthy dose of - insanity.
Kev3188
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Wait, a study based on gov't data that shows the benefits of union representation? Say it ain't so!700UW said:
robbedagain
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Kev my friend that is real data but not in the eyes of those union haters
Kev,
I borrowed this from you.
Is history repeating itself?
DL FAs are saying yes.
http://labornotes.org/2011/01/flight-attendants-charge-delta-election-intimidation
I borrowed this from you.
Is history repeating itself?
DL FAs are saying yes.
http://labornotes.org/2011/01/flight-attendants-charge-delta-election-intimidation
Kev3188
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Sure sounds like it... lots of people being asked to have "meetings" with their manager(s)...700UW said:
robbedagain
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kev mgmt. should never be asking them for "meetings" correct me if Im wrong but it sounds like DL may want to "punish" those who seek unionization??
WorldTraveler
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the data regarding unions success just happens to be generic and not specific to the airline industry.
It is well accepted in analysis that if you can use more specific data in an analysis, you DON'T use something less specific.
ie you wouldn't use the general cost of living to compare fuel prices when there is specific data available for fuel prices.
What is clear is that DL employees have received far more and larger raises and increases in compensation via profit sharing than at other airlines - and that is just since the merger.
And once again, as much as some want to ignore or downplay it, fewer DL employees lost their jobs in the period between 2001 and 2009 with the merger than occurred at NW. DL ADDED employees between BK and the merger while NW cut further.
further, DL FAs were higher compensated on average before and after BK than NW FAs.
there is a reason why more than half of the combined DL/NW workforce in every major group chose not to be unionized.
given that DL was only about 20% larger than NW, it would have taken only about 15% of PMDL employees plus all PMNW employees for the combined groups to become IAM. There had to be plenty of NW employees who voted against the IAM and unionization.
In reality, it is clear that the same reason why the NW mechanics ditched the IAM is the same reason why 5 out of 5 (did I get that right, Kev?) chose not to be IAM represented: the IAM simply did not deliver anything of value compared to other unions and esp. compared to DL.
It is well accepted in analysis that if you can use more specific data in an analysis, you DON'T use something less specific.
ie you wouldn't use the general cost of living to compare fuel prices when there is specific data available for fuel prices.
What is clear is that DL employees have received far more and larger raises and increases in compensation via profit sharing than at other airlines - and that is just since the merger.
And once again, as much as some want to ignore or downplay it, fewer DL employees lost their jobs in the period between 2001 and 2009 with the merger than occurred at NW. DL ADDED employees between BK and the merger while NW cut further.
further, DL FAs were higher compensated on average before and after BK than NW FAs.
there is a reason why more than half of the combined DL/NW workforce in every major group chose not to be unionized.
given that DL was only about 20% larger than NW, it would have taken only about 15% of PMDL employees plus all PMNW employees for the combined groups to become IAM. There had to be plenty of NW employees who voted against the IAM and unionization.
In reality, it is clear that the same reason why the NW mechanics ditched the IAM is the same reason why 5 out of 5 (did I get that right, Kev?) chose not to be IAM represented: the IAM simply did not deliver anything of value compared to other unions and esp. compared to DL.
from WADFA page:
IAM Comes with Baggage
Contributor Lance Robinson put together this eye-popping list of baggage that comes along with the IAM. Don't expect to hear any of this at an IAM road show!
IAM Comes with Baggage
Contributor Lance Robinson put together this eye-popping list of baggage that comes along with the IAM. Don't expect to hear any of this at an IAM road show!
- Part and parcel with IAM comes their non-negotiable IAM Constitution which includes "Improper Conduct of a Member" where members can be tried by the union for offenses such as speaking out against the union, not following officers' orders or trying to decertify the union. There are 10 pages of consequences. These union rules can be changed at any time by the Union.
- The latest IAM FA contract stipulates 1% raise per year for the next three years. It took almost seven years to negotiate that. The industry average annual raise from 2007-2015 has been 1.99% - nearly double the amount negotiated by IAM. Delta's average annual raise during the same period was 3.44% - more than triple the amount negotiated by IAM!
- Union dues for IAM's largest group of FAs have increased 40% since 2010. Their pay has NOT increased during this time period.
- IAM's largest group of Flight Attendants is currently seeking mediation in an attempt to get a contract.
- American Airlines put all TWA Flight Attendants at the bottom of their seniority list. These TWA Flight Attendants were IAM represented at the time.
- What Delta Flight Attendants have now is NOT guaranteed in any way, shape or form.
- Every current and recent IAM Flight Attendant contract has full-month reserve.
- The latest IAM Flight Attendant contract does NOT contain the words "profit sharing".
- The two IAM contracts for Flight Attendants working for U.S. companies (CommutAirand ExpressJet have their company's insurance and benefits requirements in two or three sentences with NO MENTION of coverage, deductibles, out-of-pocket maximums or prescriptions.
- No Flight Attendant has ever negotiated to be a part of the IAM Pension Plan; yet dues-paying Flight Attendants pay for the pensions of the other Machinists who successfully negotiated it years ago.
- Only 13% of IAM dues stays at the local level. Fully 87% of dues goes to the District and Grand Lodge to fund politicians and campaigns such as the very expensive one currently being bankrolled to squeeze $14 million in annual dues from Delta Flight Attendants.
- Every IAM contract has a Union Security and Dues Check Off section. In short, if you don't pay your dues, the company is REQUIRED to terminate you within a few days.
- Current IAM Flight Attendant contracts pay 50% for deadheading and have NO hourly duty rigs (e.g. 1 for 2) or behind-the-door rest minimums.
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