HERE COMES THE LAYOFFS

[TWU informer]

At DFW, management saying if we are all willing to take a cut we can save 1200 to 1500 jobs at the OH bases sounds like 2003 all over again. Looks like another round of concessions then they will take the layoffs on top of the concessions.

Take a cut in what?
Pension? Done
Prefunding? Done
Scope? Done
ASM? Done

The term "take a cut" is awful broad.

The T/A was a cut!
Every proposal since the T/A has been a cut!

Tell them to get more specific and stop fishing.

That $2.55 Line Premium for you guys is looking better all the time.
You guys refused a raise and O/H was going to take a hit, why on earth would they think you would take a cut...if they mean paycut?
The whole statement flies in the face of Section 1113c, if they want to take a cut and save jobs, I think they can do that and do not need our permission or agreement. Appears to be manipulation or further lowering of expectations.

 

[TWU informer]

When I say "Done" I mean as in Already Done, not as in "I like it Done"

 

[aapitbull]

Take a cut in what?
Pension? Done
Prefunding? Done
Scope? Done
ASM? Done

The term "take a cut" is awful broad.

The T/A was a cut!
Every proposal since the T/A has been a cut!

Tell them to get more specific and stop fishing.

That $2.55 Line Premium for you guys is looking better all the time.
You guys refused a raise and O/H was going to take a hit, why on earth would they think you would take a cut...if they mean paycut?

I assumed he was talking in terms of a paycut on top of the losses you listed he said that they were going to present a number on wednesday and for the next few weeks it would be up to the union to figure out how to get there.

First he was told we did that in 2003 and we where not intersted in that deal, secondly as you have correctly pointed out it is not up to us so it will be up to the Int'l, I believe the company is trying to gauge what reaction will happen at the line if they force it on us he did try to sale the idea that saving the jobs was the way to go. finally I was simply reporting what was said by upper management at my station yes it is a bit vague but his words not mine.

 

[TWU informer]

I assumed he was talking in terms of a paycut on top of the losses you listed he said that they were going to present a number on wednesday and for the next few weeks it would be up to the union to figure out how to get there.

First he was told we did that in 2003 and we where not intersted in that deal, secondly as you have correctly pointed out it is not up to us so it will be up to the Int'l, I believe the company is trying to gauge what reaction will happen at the line if they force it on us he did try to sale the idea that saving the jobs was the way to go. finally I was simply reporting what was said by upper management at my station yes it is a bit vague but his words not mine.

If that is direction AMR wants to go then the term "Business As Usual" used by Horton on Day 1 of his tenure, will mean more than I thought.

Tulsa Management is telling us that accountability and produtivity changes are coming.
Your Management telling you a paycut will save Overhaul Jobs.
How the hell can we have both and have new aircraft/engines on the way? Impossible

You know as well I do that there are currently still too many heads in overhaul.
Add in the desired production gains and accountability and you will have headcuts required regardless of paycuts.

Yes, we tried that plan in 2003, not going to happen or work a second time.

The Union needs to tell management and the membership that it is NOT the Union's job to manage AMR and explain to everyone that the Union is no longer going to take the blame for what is required to pay for management mistakes. In other words Unions need to stop taking the bait and the blame for this merry-go-round of ignorance. But Dues collection and protection of the relatives jobs will once again get in the way of valid representation.

Tell Management they will take the blame and they will come up with the plan to correct their errors.

TWU position should be rejected T/A is minimum plan.

 

[aapitbull]

If that is direction AMR wants to go then the term "Business As Usual" used by Horton on Day 1 of his tenure, will mean more than I thought.

Tulsa Management is telling us that accountability and produtivity changes are coming.
Your Management telling you a paycut will save Overhaul Jobs.
How the hell can we have both and have new aircraft/engines on the way? Impossible

You know as well I do that there are currently still too many heads in overhaul.
Add in the desired production gains and accountability and you will have headcuts required regardless of paycuts.

Yes, we tried that plan in 2003, not going to happen or work a second time.

The Union needs to tell management and the membership that it is NOt their job to manage and explain to them that Union is no longer going to take the blame for what is required to pay for their mistakes. In other words Unions need to stop taking the bait and the balme on this merry-go-round of ignorance. But Dues collection and protection of the relatives jobs will once again get in the way of valid representation.

I agree with your points about to many heads in OH based on the numbers of new AC/Engs on order but I can see management trying to sell the TWU the plan and then doing away with the jobs as the demand for lease return and acceptance checks declines. They are after all a dues collection agency!


To be clear the feeling I got was there where going to be layoffs and givebacks that were not optional but then there are somethings that where and depending on what the union decides they could be more layoffs or paycuts he would not be specific. Only saying there would be a opportunity to save 1200 to 1500 in OH.

 

[Birdman]

Same old song and dance. Throw it out an wait for "push back". Another info gathering stall tactic until the "professionals" can be hired to run the place.

 

[TWU informer]

I agree with your points about to many heads in OH based on the numbers of new AC/Engs on order but I can see management trying to sell the TWU the plan and then doing away with the jobs as the demand for lease return and acceptance checks declines. They are after all a dues collection agency!


To be clear the feeling I got was there where going to be layoffs and givebacks that were not optional but then there are somethings that where and depending on what the union decides they could be more layoffs or paycuts he would not be specific.

The only thing that may need tweaking from the rejected T/A is the job security clause advancement date.

Surely the Union could muster a minimum a court filing/arguement that now that AMR has revisted lease agreements, rejected leases, sell the townhouse in the UK, ect. ect., then if AA could have afforded the rejected T/A before those actions took place, now there should be money after restructuring to make that agreement even more profitable than before the filing of C11, the only change might be the headcount numbers due to fleet size numbers changing, but the pay/benefit package of the T/A should remain the same, and therefore Job Securrity Date Clause, the only needed change beyond what was agreed to in the T/A.

Scope and Headcount changes are the only potential items I see as required after the filing, and scope is not a clear cut issue at all, and only might be needed due to the headcount reductions and movement of skills.

By The Way, in my opinion we would be damn lucky to obtain such an agreement now.

Oops forgot the obvious changes from the T/A. All prefuding abolished, and a Hard Freeze on the Pensions.

 

[TWU informer]

To be clear the feeling I got was there where going to be layoffs and givebacks that were not optional but then there are somethings that where and depending on what the union decides they could be more layoffs or paycuts he would not be specific. Only saying there would be a opportunity to save 1200 to 1500 in OH.

Saving those 1200-1500 jobs could be as simple as allowing DHW to have what is takes to allow AFW employees to work there instead of AFW.

 

[TWU informer]

In other words, all though the T/A was rejected by 2/3 rds, having that T/A in hand might be of great value as this proceeds.

 

[Duke787]

Bob speaks for LINE MAINTENANCE !! When a lot of us are working two jobs to get by we've got problems.
We have no control of a company that wants to turn itself into a shithole !

During negotiations Bob speaks for line and OH, we are all under the same contract. I can tell you ORD will not do a work action because a local president from NY says to.


Like I have always said, we should have separate contracts for line and OH, having large #s doesn't seem to be really working for us.

AA use to be a great airline. There was always tough negotiations, but for the last 9 years it's been a steady case of oppress the employees and reward the executives (who ran the company into BK).

 

[Duke787]

At DFW, management saying if we are all willing to take a cut we can save 1200 to 1500 jobs at the OH bases sounds like 2003 all over again. Looks like another round of concessions then they will take the layoffs on top of the concessions.

That is my biggest fear taking huge pay cuts to save OH again.

 

[TWU informer]

That is my biggest fear taking huge pay cuts to save OH again.

My biggest fear is being led into a Strike with Union Men like you. And that is why you end up taking those paycuts.
The majority will never trust the minority and you just told why.
That is why I voted Yes to begin with, because the TWU is made of a whole lot of you.
And as long as there is a whole lot of you, I am not risking a damn thing.
And since I am not risking a damn thing while not trusting you, then you just sit back and get what you deserve.
The end justifies the means, with real union men.

You can have the "I want mine, Brother Attitude" while you demonized the majority who claims "I've Got Mine, Brother"

There is no difference between "I've got mine" and "I want mine" except who currently has ownership.

 

[texasreb]

Why save overhaul for the longest time the line stations could not get a decent raise because little doe everything for overhaul two care for overhaul only not line stations so they will still get rid of mechs don't give anymore pay then we did for the last 30yrs I have been with aa line got nothing

Because someone has to work on the stuff that the line can not or will not work on. At AFW we get all of the crap planes that you will not touch.

 

[Buck]

If that is direction AMR wants to go then the term "Business As Usual" used by Horton on Day 1 of his tenure, will mean more than I thought.

Tulsa Management is telling us that accountability and produtivity changes are coming.
Your Management telling you a paycut will save Overhaul Jobs.
How the hell can we have both and have new aircraft/engines on the way? Impossible

You know as well I do that there are currently still too many heads in overhaul.
Add in the desired production gains and accountability and you will have headcuts required regardless of paycuts.

Yes, we tried that plan in 2003, not going to happen or work a second time.

The Union needs to tell management and the membership that it is NOT the Union's job to manage AMR and explain to everyone that the Union is no longer going to take the blame for what is required to pay for management mistakes. In other words Unions need to stop taking the bait and the blame for this merry-go-round of ignorance. But Dues collection and protection of the relatives jobs will once again get in the way of valid representation.

Tell Management they will take the blame and they will come up with the plan to correct their errors.

TWU position should be rejected T/A is minimum plan.

I do not believe that the Union can or will tell management anything. When Local 514 shutdown the working together process, nothing changed. I think that the stream of revenue to the International is what will be controlling factor. I believe you are very correct with the work rule changes, I believe the company has been after the 7 day coverage issue for a very long time and a change to the overtime rules, at least in the hangars. To answer another posters statement, no one is going to perform a illegal job action...........

 

[TWU informer]

TWU MEMBER DEFINTION OF "UNION MAN"

"I'VE GOT MINE, BROTHER"

AND

"YOU COWARD, YOU WILL NOT TAKE A STAND FOR ME"

ALL IN THE SAME SENTENCE