Nightwatch;Nightwatch said:
If your asking me if the "real union men/women" are the people who voted to #### CAN the TWU, (in this particular case), then BROTHER,
"COUNT ME IN" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NH/BB's
Honest Question - Answer Honestly!
- Thread starter Hopeful
- Start date
If your asking me if the "real union men/women" are the people who voted to #### CAN the TWU, (in this particular case), then BROTHER,
"COUNT ME IN" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NH/BB's
Nightwatch
Veteran
- Jun 8, 2004
- 888
- 2
I have never worked for TWA.
Since I answered your question it is obvious the answer to mine.
The reason I asked, was that you have the habit of stating what happened at American years ago, and you were not there. So your credibility does come into question.
I do not make statements concerning TWA, because I was not there.
Since I answered your question it is obvious the answer to mine.
The reason I asked, was that you have the habit of stating what happened at American years ago, and you were not there. So your credibility does come into question.
I do not make statements concerning TWA, because I was not there.
Nightwatch
Veteran
- Jun 8, 2004
- 888
- 2
Because I may or may not have been involved or here years ago I do have the ability to research, ask other members, and verify. So tell me, am I doing this all wrong?Buck said:
You were not involved. There is no may have or may have been not. Your research is as valid and ability to ask questions are as valid as the next person.Nightwatch said:
What you are doing wrong is following the path that has been the devastation of the mechanic craft and class and for that matter unionism, at least in the airline industry. Twenty plus yeas of concessions does not make it right and is not unionism no matter how many jobs are created or saved. Even the AFL-CIO Constitutional Pre-Amble states the AFL-CIO is formed to better our wages and working conditions. I do not believe this was meant to give the airline companies a free reign over the unions and its members. By buying into the fear generated by the company and then propagated by the union leadership is wrong and if you are a union man, you know this to a fact.
Ok, how do you ask other "members" and how do you verify?Nightwatch said:
Are you asking "members" or International officials?
If you are asking "members", and you are in KC, how did you come about gaining access to these members?
Your statement:Nightwatch said:
"And bottom line boys and girls, line or O/H, if you cannot live on these wages, go find a job that pays more, simple logistics. Work=money....need more money need to work more ya think? "
Now I ask anyone out there if this sounds like management or not?
You made the statement, if you are a union man then surely you have heard such crap like that before-from management. Now you are saying to all the line guys, and fleet service, stores, cargo etc that live in high cost areas " if you cannot live on these wages, go find a job that pays more". Unions have always had this exact phrase and mentality thrown at them from management. Now we see it coming from TWU supporteres. Its more than coincidence. It reveals the true mentality of the author- a management mentality, not a union one.
Nightwatch
Veteran
- Jun 8, 2004
- 888
- 2
The point I see is this, and really it's quite simple. Any and all concessions were allowed due to a floor vote by your fellow workers. It is called a democracy. You suggest that we take this vote away and go another route? Whether I was at TWA is really not significant is it? You may wish to impress some with your ramblings about ruining our profession, but I believe if you look over your shoulder you'll see Delle and McCormick doing the ruination, not I, not the TWU, but your little buddy and savior, Delle.
Who would you ask pal? Would you ask a disgruntled , biased mechanic who had never witnessed a furlough, or a strike action, and actually lived well until the industry turned.
See, I've learned to "live outside the bun". I do not need Owens, you or others to lead me anywhere. I do my own research and base my opinions on that research. I do not go to lunch with Mr. Little, or even my local TWU officers.
Owens and you are real big on calling names to anyone not embracing AMFA. Now I wonder why I would be hesitant to even debate issues with the likes of you guys, I see it as a waste of time really.
My statements sound like management huh Owens? Seems you know a lot about management, enlighten us in a short synopsis, say less than 5,000 words, on why that is.
Pay and benefits is quite simple also, as stated, if you need more money do one of two things, spend less or make more. What is so hard about grasping that.
If you've worked at AA for say over 20 years, for those twenty years you have lived on those wages, or you have starved and sent your kids to live with relatives. but bottom line, you chose to remain with your family.
Do you guys cry like this in front of your kids? Some kind of role modeling going on.
Who would you ask pal? Would you ask a disgruntled , biased mechanic who had never witnessed a furlough, or a strike action, and actually lived well until the industry turned.
See, I've learned to "live outside the bun". I do not need Owens, you or others to lead me anywhere. I do my own research and base my opinions on that research. I do not go to lunch with Mr. Little, or even my local TWU officers.
Owens and you are real big on calling names to anyone not embracing AMFA. Now I wonder why I would be hesitant to even debate issues with the likes of you guys, I see it as a waste of time really.
My statements sound like management huh Owens? Seems you know a lot about management, enlighten us in a short synopsis, say less than 5,000 words, on why that is.
Pay and benefits is quite simple also, as stated, if you need more money do one of two things, spend less or make more. What is so hard about grasping that.
If you've worked at AA for say over 20 years, for those twenty years you have lived on those wages, or you have starved and sent your kids to live with relatives. but bottom line, you chose to remain with your family.
Do you guys cry like this in front of your kids? Some kind of role modeling going on.
The point I see is this, and really it's quite simple. Any and all concessions were allowed due to a floor vote by your fellow workers. It is called a democracy.
Obviously your standard for what Democracy is,is very low.The Soviets had what they called "Democracy" however we did not recognize their version of Democracy. In the Soviet Union people were allowed, encouraged even, to vote. In our version there is the element of free debate and an exchange of information. In the TWU version of "Democracy" much like the Soviet version dissenting views, an element of debate is forbidden.
Tell me if a vote were taken today how do you think it would go? That question applies to both the contract and AMFA.
You suggest that we take this vote away and go another route? Whether I was at TWA is really not significant is it? You may wish to impress some with your ramblings about ruining our profession, but I believe if you look over your shoulder you'll see Delle and McCormick doing the ruination, not I, not the TWU, but your little buddy and savior, Delle
Wrong again. While NWA may be taking some big hits as far as layoffs what we really should be looking at, since we are talking about the profession, the profession being an A&P mechanic, is how many A&P mechanics per aircraft, recognized as A&P mechanics and being paid as such, those airlines have compared to us. Then compare the benifits and pay those A&P recieve compared to us. You see the TWU has been eliminating A&P jobs and replacing them with other TWU represented workers for twenty years. Didnt you guys in MCI lose a lot of your shops since you did not have OSMs?
See, I've learned to "live outside the bun". I do not need Owens, you or others to lead me anywhere. I do my own research and base my opinions on that research. I do not go to lunch with Mr. Little, or even my local TWU officers.
Great, then please by all means share your findings, and the source, with all of us!
Owens and you are real big on calling names to anyone not embracing AMFA.
Such as? I would not berate a FSC or any other worker who would not benifit from AMFA for not embracing it. You made a statement, back it up.
Now I wonder why I would be hesitant to even debate issues with the likes of you guys, I see it as a waste of time really.
You have a point there.
My statements sound like management huh Owens?
Yes, they do.
Seems you know a lot about management, enlighten us in a short synopsis, say less than 5,000 words, on why that is.
I believe that I already have.
If you've worked at AA for say over 20 years, for those twenty years you have lived on those wages, or you have starved and sent your kids to live with relatives. but bottom line, you chose to remain with your family.
Did you forget the fact that we took a 25% paycut? Most people dont enjoy a 25% margin for disposable income. Maybe you did out there in Missouri, but we have never had that much cushion.
Do you guys cry like this in front of your kids? Some kind of role modeling going on.
Is rolling over and accepting concessions for twenty years your idea of being a role model?
Obviously your standard for what Democracy is,is very low.The Soviets had what they called "Democracy" however we did not recognize their version of Democracy. In the Soviet Union people were allowed, encouraged even, to vote. In our version there is the element of free debate and an exchange of information. In the TWU version of "Democracy" much like the Soviet version dissenting views, an element of debate is forbidden.
Tell me if a vote were taken today how do you think it would go? That question applies to both the contract and AMFA.
You suggest that we take this vote away and go another route? Whether I was at TWA is really not significant is it? You may wish to impress some with your ramblings about ruining our profession, but I believe if you look over your shoulder you'll see Delle and McCormick doing the ruination, not I, not the TWU, but your little buddy and savior, Delle
Wrong again. While NWA may be taking some big hits as far as layoffs what we really should be looking at, since we are talking about the profession, the profession being an A&P mechanic, is how many A&P mechanics per aircraft, recognized as A&P mechanics and being paid as such, those airlines have compared to us. Then compare the benifits and pay those A&P recieve compared to us. You see the TWU has been eliminating A&P jobs and replacing them with other TWU represented workers for twenty years. Didnt you guys in MCI lose a lot of your shops since you did not have OSMs?
See, I've learned to "live outside the bun". I do not need Owens, you or others to lead me anywhere. I do my own research and base my opinions on that research. I do not go to lunch with Mr. Little, or even my local TWU officers.
Great, then please by all means share your findings, and the source, with all of us!
Owens and you are real big on calling names to anyone not embracing AMFA.
Such as? I would not berate a FSC or any other worker who would not benifit from AMFA for not embracing it. You made a statement, back it up.
Now I wonder why I would be hesitant to even debate issues with the likes of you guys, I see it as a waste of time really.
You have a point there.
My statements sound like management huh Owens?
Yes, they do.
Seems you know a lot about management, enlighten us in a short synopsis, say less than 5,000 words, on why that is.
I believe that I already have.
If you've worked at AA for say over 20 years, for those twenty years you have lived on those wages, or you have starved and sent your kids to live with relatives. but bottom line, you chose to remain with your family.
Did you forget the fact that we took a 25% paycut? Most people dont enjoy a 25% margin for disposable income. Maybe you did out there in Missouri, but we have never had that much cushion.
Do you guys cry like this in front of your kids? Some kind of role modeling going on.
Is rolling over and accepting concessions for twenty years your idea of being a role model?
You do have the right not to post here.
However I also have the right to comment on your post. I believe from your postings that you are either management or on the edge of becoming management. Your apparent position is very non union and of course that is an opinion.
Let him go. He never posts anything all that challenging anyway. Maybe he needs another new alias.Buck said:
Steve has been in management and either they threw him out or he jumped back over the fence. I would guess that he is actually a company paid union buster, for one he readily confesses he has no problem ratting out members to management. He has been very good for AMFA as he portrays his anti-union views in favor of the twu. I'm with Bob on this one, let him run his mouth as he certainly does us no harm!!!
Nightwatch
Veteran
- Jun 8, 2004
- 888
- 2
Why not ask your MCI AMFA reps what Steve is or what Steve is not. There is no way you would believe anyone else so keep on guessing, who really cares?Rusty said:
A company paid union buster? Now there's a lot of intelligence in a one liner. I won't speak for Steve but I do not consider AMFA a union. I do not consider mechanic as my profession. I do consider the airline industry as my profession and livelihood. And actually Owens, I enjoy a 43% cushion, without my cable TV, cell phones, no credit cards, and other "necessities" of life. BTW...I put kids through college also, and I don't live in NYC by choice.
Do you harm? Not my objective, I would never harm anyone over a forum. And you are so true Owens, I'm not worthy of your blue ink so go make yourself look like an idiot with bigger fish than I.
You losers, and yes you may respond if the name fits, do not know how to handle someone that doesn't see Delle in the same light as you. Fact is, you all seem to be out of the same mold, and that is not meant as a compliment.
If you wanted to quote Steve's post as to "running to management", please do it correctly. I believe he stated he would ensure, as the AMFA girls do the TWU, that the AMFA orgs/supporters played according to the rules.
And if you'd like I could post a lengthy synopsis on how many times the AMFA supporters ran to management on Steve, not Steve on them. Perhaps you guys need to keep in touch more at those hotdog sales.
How would you know what Steve said, when you just joined the forum on June 8th 2004 and his comments where 6-mo ago or so??? Typical, predictable twu supporter!!!! ROTFLMAONightwatch said:
BWAAAHAAHA
Now thats funny, I don't care who you are, thats funny!!!
I guess its time for another alias. Each time he ruins his credibility he goes to another alias. Steve cant see the aliases wont help, because once he reveals himself through his words his lack of credibilty shines through.Rusty said:
Management one week, union the next. He seems to have an identity crises beyond his prolific aliases on this board.
Poor, poor Steve, his peers would not even elect him to be a shop steward so he comes here in the hopes that maybe when the E-board sees all the time and effort he put in fighting AMFA that they will give him some kind of appointment that will be his excuse for not working.
