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How much do you love LOA 93?

BottomFeeder said:
Mr. United,

Boy you keep this up and you are going to move ahead of your rival for being WRONG again.

By all means DOH does transfer on a merger. YOS of service also transfers.
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Can you provide a reference to support your personal opinion?
 
BottomFeeder said:
By all means DOH does transfer on a merger. YOS of service also transfers. Just because United want the ALPA policy changed and head DOH removed from the policy does not remove it from the the rest of the world.
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Didn't you watch the video your own MEC put out? It was clearly explained. Or is this just another case of selective hearing?

Let's review... In '91 it was proposed by NWA and DAL that the merger policy be updated to reflect the current realities of the industry. US Air and TWA were opposed. No surprise there considering they were the oldest groups with the weakest carriers. UAL was on the fence. In the end UAL sided with NWA and DAL, and as a majority they had the votes to change the rule. This is democracy at work.

You love to claim it was UAL who changed the rule because all you do is regurgitate the talking points of a few misguided and uninformed individuals. (USA320pilot comes to mind) It's been 16 years since the merger policy has been updated, for cryin' out loud. When will you understand that DOH and LOS is not part of ALPA's merger policy and does not apply to integration of seniority in our union?

Oh, and while I'm at it, I love the part of your MEC's video when he says "avoid windfall's" with the bold letters to emphasize his point while ignoring the rest of the sentence. The full sentence he is referring to is "Avoid windfalls at the expense of the other group." Just to be clear, in other words windfalls are not prohibited as long as they don't come at another's expense.

This is a subtle but very important point. Let's say a 5 year West f/o upgrades to captain before a 15 year East f/o. Some might consider it a windfall, but it did not come at anyone's expense because the 15 year East f/o would not have upgraded at that point in time anyway absent the merger, and the West f/o would have. Get it?? It didn't cost him anything. It didn't happen "at his expense." Nothing actually changed for either pilot. That is the actual interpretation of the merger policy. It is exactly why Nicolau ruled the way he did, and exactly why Prater can not and will not declare that the policy was not followed. It was followed. To the letter.
 
767jetz said:
Sorry, but I beg to differ. Every person I know DOES have a problem understanding your "fact" (ie: opinion).

Age IS arbitrary, and so is DOH when applied across company lines. There are plenty of older pilots hired after younger ones due to prior career choices. Are you suggesting that all seniority be based on age then? I've never heard that one before.

No one expects to keep their seniority number when they resign from one airline to work for another. If ALPA ever creates a national seniority list and pay scale, that might change. But that's not the world we live in right now. I sure would have loved to keep my years of service at TWA when I left to accept a job at United.

Almost all pilots with the exception of the few thousand East pilots understand and accept the concept of slotting and relative seniority based on what you bring to the table. They also understand the difference between attrition from the captains seat as opposed to attrition from furlough or the right seat of a 737/A320. Most pilots with the exception of the East pilots do not feel their careers are a result of luck of the draw. Most understand that it is about choices.

Please, FA... you do not speak for the majority.
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Mr United Spin Master,

Let's keep it simple for you.

You said that we could not take DOH in to a merger.

Fact is DOH is used for Pay
Vacation
Travel Bennies
Retirement vesting
and more

You quit/hired at TWA and UAL. Totally different

ALPA was DOH until 1991 and then the change with UAL's help

So when will you admit your WRONG again
 
BottomFeeder said:
Fact is DOH is used for Pay
Vacation
Travel Bennies
Retirement vesting

ALPA was DOH until 1991 and then the change with UAL's help
Click to expand...

You can have your pay, vacation(accrual), travel bennies, retirement vesting based on your YOS. I don't think anyone has ever disputed that. I certainly haven't. I maintain that DOH has nothing to do with your integrated seniority number for purposes of bidding fleet, seat, and domicile. Certainly not under the requirements of ALPA merger policy. That is the limited context of my argument, and on that I am not wrong. If I was somehow unclear about that, then I'm sorry. Hope it's a little clearer for you now. 🙄

I will give you credit for acknowledging that UAL 'helped' to change the merger policy rather than blaming UAL, since it was NWA and DAL who actually proposed it, and the three airlines together who made up the majority vote to affect the change to reflect the changed industry. Bravo! B)
 
USA320Pilot said:
What is going to be interesting is when United's assets are called US Airways.

Regards,

USA320Pilot
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Are you still on that "United assets going to USAirways" schtick? When are you going to grow up and get over it?

What next? A UCT again? (Unique Corporate Transaction, for those who haven't been privy to his blatherings in years previous to May, 2005.)

Don't we have enough animosity on thes board already with the east vs. west? We finally (mostly) got the Delta people to get back where they belong on their own board patting each other on the back, now you're stirring the pot with UAL. Get a fr***ing life already.
 
nycbusdriver said:
Are you still on that "United assets going to USAirways" schtick? When are you going to grow up and get over it?

What next? A UCT again? (Unique Corporate Transaction, for those who haven't been privy to his blatherings in years previous to May, 2005.)

Don't we have enough animosity on thes board already with the east vs. west? We finally (mostly) got the Delta people to get back where they belong on their own board patting each other on the back, now you're stirring the pot with UAL. Get a fr***ing life already.
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Man, USA320Pilot, no one respects you.

Not even your own pilot group.

That sucks.

🙁
 
767jetz said:
Let's review... In '91 it was proposed by NWA and DAL that the merger policy be updated to reflect the current realities of the industry. US Air and TWA were opposed. No surprise there considering they were the oldest groups with the weakest carriers. UAL was on the fence. In the end UAL sided with NWA and DAL, and as a majority they had the votes to change the rule. This is democracy at work.
Click to expand...


No, you are wrong.

It was UAL that lobbied in 1991. NWA and DAL did not.

I was there. I still have the emails and letters.

You are so wrong on this issue.

Grow up, would you? You are giving professional pilots a bad name.
 
ussnark said:
No, you are wrong.

It was UAL that lobbied in 1991. NWA and DAL did not.

I was there. I still have the emails and letters.

You are so wrong on this issue.
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Good God. You are starting to sound like 700UW, fighting to the death over some trivial fact that doesn't matter.

What matters today in 2007 is: ALPA no longer uses DOH for seniority mergers.

Who cares who lobbied for which position last century.
 
ussnark said:
Grow up, would you? You are giving professional pilots a bad name.
Click to expand...


Trying to steal another man's job and throwing a tantrum when it does not work is making the East pilots look like a bunch of spoiled brats.

I'm ashamed to be associated with this group of immoral and unethical people.
 
Bear96 said:
Good God. You are starting to sound like 700UW, fighting to the death over some trivial fact that doesn't matter.

What matters today in 2007 is: ALPA no longer uses DOH for seniority mergers.

Who cares who lobbied for which position last century.
Click to expand...

Ouch. and thanks for verifying that it is fact.

Simply correcting the edited by moderator UAL poster.

and, ALPA does use DOH for mergers. The policy was not changed in that manner.

MOD NOTE: Please refrain from personal attacks and name calling.
 
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