How much do you love LOA 93?

[ussnark]

Trying to steal another man's job and throwing a tantrum when it does not work is making the East pilots look like a bunch of spoiled brats.

So, how is DOH with conditions and restrictions "stealing another man's job" (assuming you also included women in that group)? Throwing a tantrum? No, the east pilots are simply using legal options to force ALPA Natl to acknowledge or toss a ruling that conflicts with ALPA Natl merger policy.

There are always options. The fact that the west MEC completely bungled this merger is simply a lougie on the way to equality.

I'm ashamed to be associated with this group of immoral and unethical people.

Well, if you are talking about ALPA Natl, I agree.

If not, shove it where you dump. Guarantee it will enhance your life.

 

[exB717Flyer]

So, how is DOH with conditions and restrictions "stealing another man's job"

Simple. Assuming a DOH integration on the merger PID, if a furlough occurs 2/3 of the AWA list would get the axe before a single Eastie. I believe a fair integration should not only share the pleasure of growth but also the pain of furlough. The Nicolau list is a ratio that shares the pain should there be a furlough. Afterall, if Nicolau had felt DOH/LOS was a fair integration he would've done it that way. You disagree with Nic but the fact remains that he very clearly intended to be fair and feels he was.

 

[ussnark]

Simple. Assuming a DOH integration on the merger PID, if a furlough occurs 2/3 of the AWA list would get the axe before a single Eastie. I believe a fair integration should not only share the pleasure of growth but also the pain of furlough. The Nicolau list is a ratio that shares the pain should there be a furlough. Afterall, if Nicolau had felt DOH/LOS was a fair integration he would've done it that way. You disagree with Nic but the fact remains that he very clearly intended to be fair and feels he was.

Like I say, It is all contained in the grouping called "conditions and restrictions". Your naivete is pretty disgusting. and stupid.

Edited by moderstor...
Make one more comment like the one I just deleted or call some one else a moron again will get you a trip to the cornfield. Enough is enough.

 

[ableoneable]

Like I say, oh moronic one. It is all contained in the grouping called "conditions and restrictions". Your naivete is pretty disgusting. and stupid.

The conditions and restrictions of which you speak were very weak.

To papaphrase; the furlough clause stated that if a furlough were to occur within 12 months of a recall the original furloghee would be re-furloughed. If however the gap between recall and furlough were to exceed 12 months the DOH/LOS list would be controlling.

Since most ecenomic cycles are a little longer than one year the net effect of a furlough would be the replacement of employed west pilots by previously unemployed east pilots.

I guess because it's the other guy this is a fair solution and is in no way a windfall for the east.

For someone so quick to label others as "moronic, disgusting and stupid" you are clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed.

 

[767jetz]

For someone so quick to label others as "moronic, disgusting and stupid" you are clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed.

I'll second that.

Hey ussnark, why don't you actually watch the video your MEC put out. (You should have plenty of time to watch it in the corn field.) Pay attention to the part where your fearless leader talks about DAL and NWA changing the merger policy. Then get back to me about the merger policy thing after you guys decide how it really happened and get your story straight. :blink:

 

[ussnark]

The conditions and restrictions of which you speak were very weak.

To papaphrase; the furlough clause stated that if a furlough were to occur within 12 months of a recall the original furloghee would be re-furloughed. If however the gap between recall and furlough were to exceed 12 months the DOH/LOS list would be controlling.

Since most ecenomic cycles are a little longer than one year the net effect of a furlough would be the replacement of employed west pilots by previously unemployed east pilots.

I guess because it's the other guy this is a fair solution and is in no way a windfall for the east.

For someone so quick to label others as "moronic, disgusting and stupid" you are clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed.

That was all negotiable. Were your "negotiators" half way human, they would have clarified that area. Since they did not, I would assume they had knowledge how the award would come down and deliberately stood down.

Simply another example of the no-trust involved in the deliberations.

Should the "award" be acknowledged, any attempt to enforce such an "award" will result in delays. Your airline will die.

 

[ableoneable]

That was all negotiable. Were your "negotiators" half way human, they would have clarified that area. Since they did not, I would assume they had knowledge how the award would come down and deliberately stood down.

Simply another example of the no-trust involved in the deliberations.

Should the "award" be acknowledged, any attempt to enforce such an "award" will result in delays. Your airline will die.

Ahh, negotiated. The east merger commitee reiterated many times that they thought that their proposal was fair and needed no modifications.

The evening before the "call back day" when Nic attempted a last stab at a negotiated settlement the west submitted, to the arbitrator and to the east merger commitee, a proposal on areas where the west was prepared to give ground and negotiate changes. When Nic then turned to the east side and asked if the east was prepared to make any modifications they responded that they thought their proposal was fine as is and they felt no need to make any modifications. (In addition they got snotty and told Nic that the proposal the west had sent out the night before should count as the west's final written brief and that they should not be allowed to submit a brief. Nic actually laughed at them on that one.)

Read the freaking transcripts.

 

[ussnark]

I'll second that.

Hey ussnark, why don't you actually watch the video your MEC put out. (You should have plenty of time to watch it in the corn field.) Pay attention to the part where your fearless leader talks about DAL and NWA changing the merger policy. Then get back to me about the merger policy thing after you guys decide how it really happened and get your story straight. :blink:

Let me get this straight.

The "fearless" leader was chairman of the Strike (sorry, Family Awareness Committee) at the time that UAL promoted a change to the merger policy, therefore he knows all?

Sounds to me you are hitting on about three out of eight cylinders. Like two beers short of a six pack?

I was there. You were not. Neither was he.

As a troll, you are pretty silly.

 

[CapnCockroach]

Hmmm....$115,900 to keep the St Nic atrocity from ever happening?....Where do I send the check?

PS: What ever happened to all the initially touted AWA "Righteous Position" and imaginary moral high ground?

I think when the Stephan "DOH" movement tried to shove it up their butts - something came back out. Right back at you. Rightfully so. The rest of the world is laughing over your collective stupidity.

 

[ableoneable]

Nark,

Still no response from you on why the east's DOH/LOS recall the east and expose the west to furlough is not an east windfall at the expense of the west.

Are you capable of a response or are you going to simply label me a moron and move on?

 

[ussnark]

Nark,

Still no response from you on why the east's DOH/LOS recall the east and expose the west to furlough is not an east windfall at the expense of the west.

Are you capable of a response or are you going to simply label me a moron and move on?

Some of us must work, something you seem to not comprehend.

The inevitable furlough is met with, oh my gosh, "conditions and restrictions", just like I said.

A relative seniority merger should make allowances for differing contracts. Someone should have said that the east should, virtually, recall 620 furloughees just to equate the vacation side of the contract differences.

The MDA pilots have always been mainline.

Had you conceded slightly, you would have gained a lot. Now, you will be stapled to the bottom, the inevitable result of greed.

Gear up, fool!


Comment deleted by moderator. Enjoy your time off. You were warned & chose to ignore.

 

[ableoneable]

Wow, calling me a moron in the first sentence. Let me guess; you don't understand why no-one wants you on the negotiating commitee. In the first breath you say you read the transcripts. In the next you say that "some of us must work" implying that you don't have the time to read. Which is it?

I thought we already covered the "conditions and restrictions". They were meaningless.

I do read the transcipts. Moron.

Some of us must work, something you seem to not comprehend.

The inevitable furlough is met with, oh my gosh, "conditions and restrictions", just like I said.





A relative seniority merger should make allowances for differing contracts. Someone should have said that the east should, virtually, recall 620 furloughees just to equate the vacation side of the contract differences.



The MDA pilots have always been mainline.



Had you conceded slightly, you would have gained a lot. Now, you will be stapled to the bottom, the inevitable result of greed.

Gear up, fool!

As I pointed out the west was prepared to negotiate the east was not. Even if ALPA is removed the list stays. Enjoy the right seat. You clearly should never occupy the left one.

 

[prechilill]

Pay attention to the part where your fearless leader talks about DAL and NWA changing the merger policy. Then get back to me about the merger policy thing after you guys decide how it really happened and get your story straight. :blink:

They are not yet quite in agreement in their story they are creating among themselves about DOH. The DOH policy is somewhere, written on a golden tablet perhaps, but this elusive doctrine last seen twenty years ago has been religion at USAir east. They saw it, like another UFO sighting, and their great profit Jackus Stephan tells of a story involving a lot of high level players, like the conspiring UAL MEC. And so their blinded faith continues with their loyal followers, that somewhere, sometime, this golden doctrine will appear before us into the living world and justice will be served to the America West pilots. Peace will then reign on USAirways.

"It is said a man who knows nothing knows what he sees, or so he thinks he knows. " Prechilill 2007

 

[A320 Driver]

Still lots of arguing, finger pointing, name calling and acusations, but virtually nothing in the way of constructive ideas on how to move forward. All this is doing is further entrenching each side and nothing good is going to come out of it.

The East MEC is making overtures to management regarding separate contracts and operations. What trump card does the West MEC think they hold that would FORCE the company to put operations together and put the Nic award into practical use? Another lawsuit? The TA? What?

Just curious.

A320 Driver B)

 

[Bear96]

Ouch. and thanks for verifying that it is fact.

If by "it" you mean that the ALPA merger policy in 2007 is not DOH, then you're welcome. I have been meaning to thank you for admitting the same thing.

But if, as I suspect, by "it" you mean Airline X supported chaning the merger policy some time last century while Airline Y didn't, I am not sure how I verified anything like that. I have no idea what the respective ALPA MEC's positions were way back then, nor do I care, because it is irrelevant.