IAM Fleet Service topic 11/26-

[Black Magic]

Good summary Chockjockey. The unit lead postition is new in phoenix, we never used to have them and I still believe we don't need it either. Doing it the old way with the manager running the show it provided a better work relationship and the manager had a better idea of what was going on ramp at that moment instead of the "hearsay" we have now.

 

[Jester]

"You Can't blame the New regime for that. They didn't put it there and they DIDN'T Negotiate the last T/A not to sound like a broken record but it needs to be repeated. YOU chased after the pieces of silver and this is what we have. SO live with it. AGAIN . Language and Scope much more valuable than a couple bucks that alot of people will never enjoy." -- Orioleman


O-man,

I wish your memory skills were better as I could probably just as easily cut-and-paste everything I have provided in previous posts, and I am sure I could adequately respond, for example:

"I will say it again... the problem with the IAM is the systemic ineptitude from the top to bottom, from the past to the present. However, instead you will focus on your convenient scapegoat of Boss Canale who hasn't been office for a year?"

"Second, you gloss over and excuse the lousy representation without a peep I assume under the banner of Solidarity'."

"Who is different on the Executive Board than last year?"

"I only demand to be properly represented, and I do not think that is asking too much, do you?"

"If you and others are going to continue to excuse the IAM leaders, then I suggest in the spirit of 'Truth in Advertising' to rename our union as "Ignorant Ass Muthers" or 'Inane Associate Members'."

So Reiterates Jester.

 

[orioleman]

"You Can't blame the New regime for that. They didn't put it there and they DIDN'T Negotiate the last T/A not to sound like a broken record but it needs to be repeated. YOU chased after the pieces of silver and this is what we have. SO live with it. AGAIN . Language and Scope much more valuable than a couple bucks that alot of people will never enjoy." -- Orioleman


O-man,

I wish your memory skills were better as I could probably just as easily cut-and-paste everything I have provided in previous posts, and I am sure I could adequately respond, for example:

"I will say it again... the problem with the IAM is the systemic ineptitude from the top to bottom, from the past to the present. However, instead you will focus on your convenient scapegoat of Boss Canale who hasn't been office for a year?"
Hey D/A ,
Your the one bringing up the S*ity contract YOU voted for not me. YES I blame Canale, Because as
I'm sure your well aware of Canale is like that STD you carry around . Once you GOT IT you GOT IT. Although Canale is gone. He signed off on a POS T/A that WE have to live with for the next couple years

"Second, you gloss over and excuse the lousy representation without a peep I assume under the banner of Solidarity'."
Don't remember glossing anything over . But let me ask you this OH great one . question 1. Do you have
an active Grievance Committee ON PROPERTY NOW. question 2. Do you have the opportunity to talk face
to face with your AGC's at the airport. Those 2 things weren't available under Canales regime You being an
ex AW employee wouldn't expect you to know that . so next time your AGC's in town grow a set and go up
and tell him how you feel about YOUR UNION REPRESENTATION. I DO. and I did under the old regime the difference was they didn't come around but about once every 2 yrs or so.

"Who is different on the Executive Board than last year?"
As far as the E-Board . Everyone that was voted into office in 08 is new and Again let me type this reeeeeeal
slow for ya. THEY DID NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH OUR CONTRACT.

"I only demand to be properly represented, and I do not think that is asking too much, do you?"
And you are being represented YOU just don't know it. You can't rewrite the contract when you want to. That is
WHY, we on the EAST are trying to tell you guys . SCOPE AND LANGUAGE . I will be the first one to tell you
our contract SUCKS . It always has except maybe for the initial one but everyone since has gotten worse and worse.

"If you and others are going to continue to excuse the IAM leaders, then I suggest in the spirit of 'Truth in Advertising' to rename our union as "Ignorant Ass Muthers" or 'Inane Associate Members'."
Not excusing anyone. Just put the blame on the right shoulders and that would be on Canale and his misfits
and the ones who chased the 2 pieces of fools gold.

So Reiterates Jester.

SO ANSWERS THE O-MAN :huh:

 

[Jester]

SO ANSWERS THE O-MAN :huh:

O-man,

I believe you commited a typo... "SO AVOIDS THE O-MAN :huh: " would have been more appropriate. As you have parried the issue, I'll ask directly... which one of Boss Canale's toadies gave bad information to LAS?

However, maybe I am mistaken as it was not a typo, but a misused word... "SO OBFUSCATES THE O-MAN :huh: " would have been correct as not once during the entire debate on the contract vote did you or anyone else ever mention Article 9, Paragraph 2 of the CBA. To go one better, never did you or anyone else ever mention the carte blache attendance policy given to Management either. However, NOW you are going to take credit in the foresight of "scope and language" even though you and others were COMPLETELY quiet on these matters, and bash "Yes" voters for taking the huge wage gains?! To suggest you are attempting to deliberately muddle the issues while tossing in non-sequiturs would be generously kind.

Okay, one last try... "SO ABDICATES THE O-MAN :huh: " ... Oh, I could only wish. If you think this current bunch of clowns are representing me and I just don't know it, then I wish they should just sit in their offices or go have back-slapping conventions consisting mostly of chowing on brats while chugging beer. I figure it this way because no representation is better than bad representation, as I could rely upon myself instead of deluding myself into thinking I am obtaining expert or professional advice from novices.

So Corrects Jester.

 

[charlie Brown]

O-man,

I believe you commited a typo... "SO AVOIDS THE O-MAN :huh: " would have been more appropriate. As you have parried the issue, I'll ask directly... which one of Boss Canale's toadies gave bad information to LAS?

However, maybe I am mistaken as it was not a typo, but a misused word... "SO OBFUSCATES THE O-MAN :huh: " would have been correct as not once during the entire debate on the contract vote did you or anyone else ever mention Article 9, Paragraph 2 of the CBA. To go one better, never did you or anyone else ever mention the carte blache attendance policy given to Management either. However, NOW you are going to take credit in the foresight of "scope and language" even though you and others were COMPLETELY quiet on these matters, and bash "Yes" voters for taking the huge wage gains?! To suggest you are attempting to deliberately muddle the issues while tossing in non-sequiturs would be generously kind.

Okay, one last try... "SO ABDICATES THE O-MAN :huh: " ... Oh, I could only wish. If you think this current bunch of clowns are representing me and I just don't know it, then I wish they should just sit in their offices or go have back-slapping conventions consisting mostly of chowing on brats while chugging beer. I figure it this way because no representation is better than bad representation, as I could rely upon myself instead of deluding myself into thinking I am obtaining expert or professional advice from novices.

So Corrects Jester.

Jester, Lets face facts, it didnt really matter what was mentioned in the debate on the last t/a. The west coast was getting a significant raise by voting it in. I dont blame any of them out there. We on the east did the same thing many years ago during the piedmont , usair merger. The company knows that money talks. I do remember many of the east guys on this board trying to tell the west guys about many reasons to vote the last t/a down, not because we were smarter than you guys in the west, but just because we had been through it and been burned before. Just like the contracting out of cities. It dosent matter how much money is in a contract, if you dont have job protection do keep your job. As for the sick policy, its not and never has been in the conrtact.How you use and accrue sick days is in the contract, but as far as how many points or occurences it takes to get to certain levels has never been in there. The company uses art. 3F when they impose the sick policy. If youve never read it, I suggest reading it, it wont make you very happy. It pretty much gives the company card-blanch in my opionion.

 

[ChockJockey]

and the ones who chased the 2 pieces of fools gold

Wow. In your mind it really is just that simple.

It's really nice being regularly referred to as fools and traitors by our union brothers. That's such an effective way of getting people to see your point of view without angering or alienating them. Keep up the good work.

Solidarity, etc.

 

[Edward]

Folks one warning. A couple of you (and you should know who you are) are about to get time off if the flame baiting comments at each other don't stop. Guys it ends now.

 

[orioleman]

Wow. In your mind it really is just that simple.

It's really nice being regularly referred to as fools and traitors by our union brothers. That's such an effective way of getting people to see your point of view without angering or alienating them. Keep up the good work.

Solidarity, etc.

Chock , your becoming quite the spin maker.
Where did I call you a Fool or traitor. But hey read how ever you want. the truth is our scope and language
sucks and there is nothing we can do about now. for all the jesters and chocks of the world . You wanted your
raise . YOU got your raise . So stop b*tch*ng about our weak language . it is what it is .

 

[freedom]

Let's take this in another direction. What is being done to help our members find employment after they have been laid off , do we help with retraining for a new job etc ?

 

[ChockJockey]

Chock , your becoming quite the spin maker.
Where did I call you a Fool or traitor. But hey read how ever you want. the truth is our scope and language
sucks and there is nothing we can do about now. for all the jesters and chocks of the world .

Pfft..."fools' gold" is your quote, "30 pieces of silver", also oft-considered witty has been used, though not maybe by yourself, etc. etc. ad nauseum. Check the archived fleet service posts my chum.

You wanted your raise .

True.

YOU got your raise .

Also true.

So stop b*tch*ng about our weak language . it is what it is .

Suuuuh-wing and a miss. Please kindly point out where I have ever complained about the language in the contract; I don't have a problem with it as it relates to me. I do know it is what it is, and I daresay it displeases you more than myself.

What I do think is funny though are these voices still trying to convince me that somehow I've made a dire mistake in the vote I made, that they, not I, know what's best for me and also my cohorts that voted similarly and for reasons and towards the priorities of their own; and that we should have continued to hold out working hard and making less until the apparently dysfunctional (corrupt?) union regime at the time (or the one following) finally got around to crafting an amazing TA that satisfied everybody with a showcase of spectacular forethought in regards to scope and language.

You'll please forgive my pessimism, but had I heeded that advice I have the strangest feeling that somehow I'd still be sitting here making the same crap wage as when I started while the union and company would remained bogged down in fruitless negotiation (as it typically goes [and assuming the company would even still be interested at that point]) trying desperately to appease those East Coast die-hards that have seemingly so successfully convinced themselves of their monopoly on the truth and foremost position of importance.

So yes, it is, as you say, what it is, and on that we can agree.

Cheers!

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the East fleet service outnumber West by a significant margin?

 

[necigrad]

Yes there is more East then West. The contract passed because of either arrogance (in thinking it woudn't pass), ignorance (or more specifically not caring), or because of the Class 2 stations. Whatever the reasons it passed, and the superior numbers of East employees either felt the proposal was better or just didn't vote.

 

[pjirish317]

Yes there is more East then West. The contract passed because of either arrogance (in thinking it woudn't pass), ignorance (or more specifically not caring), or because of the Class 2 stations. Whatever the reasons it passed, and the superior numbers of East employees either felt the proposal was better or just didn't vote.

necigrad,

You are correct. Just like 2005 when the BKII CBA was voted in. Regardless of who voted which way, how the vote was done, when, what, & where, ect, ect, ect, it passes and royaly screwed the Class II stations. This CBA was voted in by a majority vote period, end of discussion. The bickering of how the vote was done, or who voted for/against it needs to stop. We all have to deal with it now. Just like the BKII CBA. There were people on here, myself included, that were very much against this T/A. And we tried to voice our concerns about it. Those concerns probably could have been done better/different, but I doubt that it would have changed the outcome. The West and the Class II stations wanted the pay. I can't blame them. And everybody that works in a Class I station should not blame them either, and this is why. The Class I stations carried to vote for our BKII CBA for the pay, not the Scope & Language. That vote screwed over their union brothers/sisters that worked in the Class II stations. Many of which are gone now. Those of you I know on here that work in the Class I stations, I believe you when you say that you voted no, but the rest of your Class I brothers & sisters voted yes and screwed all of the Class II stations for the almighty dollar. Can we move on already, and fight the comapny instead of each other already. PLEASE!!!!!!!!! It's a new time now within the IAM, let's start off on the right foot.

 

[orioleman]

Pfft..."fools' gold" is your quote, "30 pieces of silver", also oft-considered witty has been used, though not maybe by yourself, etc. etc. ad nauseum. Check the archived fleet service posts my chum.

Where does it say your a fool. The reference I said is you chased after "fools gold". Now if you want to take
that as being a fool that's up to you.


Suuuuh-wing and a miss. Please kindly point out where I have ever complained about the language in the contract; I don't have a problem with it as it relates to me. I do know it is what it is, and I daresay it displeases you more than myself.

Chock I wasn't speaking to you , I was answering your alter ego "jester" . But I'm guessing since you
took offense that was directed at him makes me think that someone might be using dual handles.HMMMMMMMM

You'll please forgive my pessimism, but had I heeded that advice I have the strangest feeling that somehow I'd still be sitting here making the same crap wage as when I started while the union and company would remained bogged down in fruitless negotiation (as it typically goes [and assuming the company would even still be interested at that point]) trying desperately to appease those East Coast die-hards that have seemingly so successfully convinced themselves of their monopoly on the truth and foremost position of importance.
Unfortunately it is the truth, You see us "die hard east coasters" have been on this marry-go-around more
than once and was just trying to speak from experience in OUR (the east coast) mistakes of the past.


Cheers!

PJ couldn't agree with you more

 

[orioleman]

Yes there is more East then West. The contract passed because of either arrogance (in thinking it woudn't pass), ignorance (or more specifically not caring), or because of the Class 2 stations. Whatever the reasons it passed, and the superior numbers of East employees either felt the proposal was better or just didn't vote.

grad your dead on on all the above. Also might I add that little stunt Randy and his cronies pulled in PHX
help things along , By having people sign off on dues check sheets so they can vote on property definitely
threw the advantage his way. Funny HE didn't insist on voting on property in any of the East coast cities
remember at the time of voting for the last T/A , Randy knew is reign was coming to an end and wanted to
stick it to the membership one last time . He's gone but yet WE are stuck with this crappy contract for at least
another 2 years or so. So I guess Randy in his perverted ways got the last laugh