IAM Fleet Service topic 28June-

[ChockJockey]

I think he is a tri handler, CJ, CHP and Management or Jstr. And the GC'S that fought for TUS and the Lead 40 plus happen to be East Fleet who don't play regional bias! Nor will they engage in non solidarity crap that only benefits Management or the Politically Challenged! SO Refutes GF

I'd rather be presumed a persona of an obviously intelligent person than assumed an individual whose parrotings make him indistinguishable from his hive-minded cohorts. I would not accuse you of being someone else because 1.) I don't care enough to think about it and 2.) it doesn't make any practical difference.

However being that I am not Jester I must humbly submit the "dear gentle" browsers and contributors of this forum not presume that he is my alter-ego or I his (lol) simply because their grasp of artful English may be as yet insufficient to allow them to identify those things that so clearly discern us.

I will admit to being many things, but someone else is not among them. Now, please, continue arguing for my amusement. B) B) B)

 

[Jester]

I Guess favortism was involved when an AGC was able to to open nearly 40 openings for TUS agents to go to PHX as well as nearly the same number of Lead openings for the furloughed LAS agents? Lets all knock off the East West BS and maybe we can focus on real issues like supplying Kleenex tissue to some of the posters who constantly CRY and are more apt to be Managers than Unionists? Hey Just an Opinion? So requests GF

GF,

There was a reason as to why those Lead positions were vacant... no one wanted them in PHX, even with full-time hours. In fact, some of those Lead positions were filled by furlough people with less than 3 years seniority because even though the reduction in staff was mostly on the west coast and PHX was relatively close, most people still decided to move to PHL or DCA than take the management crap of being a Lead in PHX. It is a thankless job which Leads have all the responsibility but none of the authority while taking the management abuse.

People on the receiving end of favoritism rarely see the extent to which it benefits them assuming either others are getting the same or it is the natural order. So let's just remove all these ugly thoughts from your mind as it to be an inconvenient truth?

So Reject Jester.

 

[pjirish317]

I would ask why was West working under Work Brain while East was just signing their names to a sheet of paper and fudging the start times?



So Deals Jester.

Jester,

Check your facts. There are only 8 stations SYSTEMWIDE that do not use workbrain, East and West. Where do you get this stuff?

 

[pjirish317]

ROA, GF, and Oman,

I can assure you that chockjockey and jester are not the same person. As for jester and creamhorn, who knows? And can we stop with the East/West argument please, we are all USAirways Fleet Service. Lets not start acting like some other employee group that we all know. It is no longer East and West.


P.S.
With the exception of PHX, they appear to want to be seperated from the rest of us. (I know not all in PHX feel this way though). No offense to the rest of PHX that do not feel that way.

 

[ChockJockey]

ROA, GF, and Oman,
I can assure you that chockjockey and jester are not the same person.

Sweet vindication!

And can we stop with the East/West argument please, we are all USAirways Fleet Service. Lets not start acting like some other employee group that we all know. It is no longer East and West.

I agree completely. The East/West dichotomy is fading, and has been ever since we've been under the same contract. The argument in regards to the educational or legal competence/experience/education of the union leadership/negotiators while valid is a secondary and distracting concern; the greater threat to Fleet Service is division of its self along geographical or political lines. I strongly support solidarity based on universal group identity and group interest, true solidarity, not to an ideology or clique or voting bloc. Only then can the full potential of collective bargaining be realized.

The East and West have been integrated; through station closings and transfers many have crossed where there once were barriers. I have been fortunate enough to talk with a lot of the folks that came to PHX from all over the system and have gained some very intriguing insights and explanations in terms of conditions and operations at other hubs and other stations. For example, I used to hate on PHL like a lot of other people but it wasn't until I spoke with some of the leads from there that I got an understanding of how things were/are like there and the challenges and impediments that PHL fleet had to deal with.

Rather than establish our own ignorant assumptions and use them as foundations for understanding we should be asking questions and learn about the different environments and conditions under which Fleet operates around the system. True solidarity is the only solution.

P.S.
With the exception of PHX, they appear to want to be seperated from the rest of us. (I know not all in PHX feel this way though). No offense to the rest of PHX that do not feel that way.

Not all in PHX feel this way because most in PHX have no opinion on the matter at all, this being because most of them are in the dark about the goings on of the district and union business as a whole. Why is this? Some have suggested that it's a demographic phenomenon, that people in PHX aren't interested in union activity because of their political beliefs or lifestyle or life goals. Others will argue that this is the result of poor leadership on behalf of the PHX GC. I think that both of these are contributing factors to PHX renowned apathy.

I don't have a whole lot to go on because PHX is the only station I've ever worked and this is the only union job I've ever had. I like our GC. They are cool people. They're available and attentive to concerns that are brought to them and I do feel that they have the best interests of the membership at heart.

However, they seem to just... blend in with everybody else. There's not so much of a union presence with them, if that makes sense. Having taken time to reflect on it, I think that PHX could be better served by a group of persons that are observably more engaging, energetic, enthusiastic, and outreaching to the membership. There should be more talking and walking around the ramp and break rooms, getting to know the agents, their worries, concerns, opinions. Why should people be interested in the union if it's apparent that the union isn't interested in them? CL posted here a while back explaining the challenges and unique facets of the PHX membership and I don't disagree with what he wrote, however, those specified challenges are not overcome by chilling out in the A-side break room reading the paper or shooting the breeze with the rest of the AWA old guard.

PHX deserves true leadership in this regard; passive but functional might help to satisfy station concerns but it bothers me that PHX is on the path to exile, self-imposed or otherwise from the body of Fleet, with possibly serious consequences, while PHX membership remains by a majority aloof and apathetic.

These are just my impressions and observations and opinion.

 

[necigrad]

There was a reason as to why those Lead positions were vacant... no one wanted them in PHX, even with full-time hours. In fact, some of those Lead positions were filled by furlough people with less than 3 years seniority because even though the reduction in staff was mostly on the west coast and PHX was relatively close, most people still decided to move to PHL or DCA than take the management crap of being a Lead in PHX. It is a thankless job which Leads have all the responsibility but none of the authority while taking the management abuse.

I think you're right in that there was a reason for those positions being vacant. Your analysis of why they were not fill is incorrect. Those positions were not 'open' so they could not be filled. Because they were not open the furloughs in LAS were not eligible to displace to them. When those positions finally opened up the senior employees displaced by and large had already moved and would not do so again, especially at their own expense. I know many of those that transferred to PHX TL from LAS. Pretty much all of them were junior FT or were PT. Most of them still had homes in LAS and nothing permanent in the other cities, or were commuting and never left LAS. Had those positions been open at the time of furlough you would have probably had them filled by FT LAS rampers with 7-10 years seniority.

And for the record I do not believe Jester and CHP to be one and the same. CHP knows more about LAS and Jester doesn't know enough.

 

[roabilly]

ROA, GF, and Oman,

I can assure you that chockjockey and jester are not the same person. As for jester and creamhorn, who knows? And can we stop with the East/West argument please, we are all USAirways Fleet Service. Lets not start acting like some other employee group that we all know. It is no longer East and West.


P.S.
With the exception of PHX, they appear to want to be seperated from the rest of us. (I know not all in PHX feel this way though). No offense to the rest of PHX that do not feel that way.

I would have to concur with the assertion that the East/West argument is getting old.

However... there are certain posters here that have a vested interest in perpetuating it! You know who they are... I know who they are... and they know who they are!

These childish, simple minded games are not the product of malcontents. They are the product of a campaign to disperse unity! Take a guess WHO benefits the most when a cohesive workforce is at odds with itself! Ask the PILOTS!

In addition... there WILL be further consolidation in the industry and we WILL be involved in it. I guess then it will be North vs. South... South vs. West... and East vs. everyone!

So lights up the Sea-Whiz...

BroBilly

 

[orioleman]

GF,

There was a reason as to why those Lead positions were vacant... no one wanted them in PHX, even with full-time hours. In fact, some of those Lead positions were filled by furlough people with less than 3 years seniority because even though the reduction in staff was mostly on the west coast and PHX was relatively close, most people still decided to move to PHL or DCA than take the management crap of being a Lead in PHX. It is a thankless job which Leads have all the responsibility but none of the authority while taking the management abuse.

People on the receiving end of favoritism rarely see the extent to which it benefits them assuming either others are getting the same or it is the natural order. So let's just remove all these ugly thoughts from your mind as it to be an inconvenient truth?

So Reject Jester.

You and your buddy B*tch about Senior people getting lead jobs in LAS . You b*tch about junior people getting Lead jobs in PHX. Like I said before someone could give you a million bucks and you would complain about paying taxes..
as far as the "crap the leads have to take off management" well all I can say is if you let them push you around then they will. The responsibility of a lead agent is to lead and direct . Not to hard to do . You do your job and its the managers JOB to make sure others are doing there's . NOT the L/A. but PHX has allowed the suits in PHX to run the show and bully people around for so long that it appears to SOP. Again its a product of your environment. Instead of Bit*hing on here about it . Why don't you suggest to your Lead Agents to just to what there JOB description states. No more NO less.

 

[Ramp Rogue]

Another thing that should be addressed in the upcoming contract is that if a person is bypassed for overtime, regardless of the reason they should be paid for the bypass without having to work the hours at a later date. That is the only way that US will stop bypassing people. Make them pay for their mistakes and they won't make any, or not that many.

Rogue

 

[Dog Wonder]

Don't complicate things.

No more contracting.

Raise the pay.

All of this we can't get anything without giving something back has gone on too long.

 

[The Janitor]

Don't complicate things.

No more contracting.

Raise the pay.

All of this we can't get anything without giving something back has gone on too long.

good post.

There are never cost neutral contracts, i.e., you have to give something up to get something. There are concessionary contracts to help save a company and jobs, and there are enhanced contracts where everyone gains as a company prospers. The last several years have been givebacks, the next round will be gains if the economy continues to trend profits for the airline.

Slightly less well known are sweetheart contracts where a union leader like Canale just asks management to fill in the blanks. Never mind the economy.
Democracy is the relief. Thankfully, last month we finally voted out the rest of Canale's remnant.

 

[necigrad]

Another thing that should be addressed in the upcoming contract is that if a person is bypassed for overtime, regardless of the reason they should be paid for the bypass without having to work the hours at a later date. That is the only way that US will stop bypassing people. Make them pay for their mistakes and they won't make any, or not that many.

Rogue

This is how it was in the TWU contract. It didn't do a damn thing towards getting Management to do it right, but if you fought to get paid for their error you would. Personally I think there should be a penalty for ALL violations, not simply a 'fix' to the grievance.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Another thing that should be addressed in the upcoming contract is that if a person is bypassed for overtime, regardless of the reason they should be paid for the bypass without having to work the hours at a later date.

Rogue

Wait, you're telling me you don't get paid for an OT bypass? You get "Rights" to OT at a later date? Seriously? How does that work?

At AA the word bypass makes management quiver, they get reamed when they have to pay out four free hours of OT because someone goofed while pulling the OT sign up.There is no "Get it back later"...they screw it up, you get paid for it.

Guys here watch the OT lists like hawks, if they even think they've been bypassed they get a steward and put in for the bypass.

 

[john john]

Wait, you're telling me you don't get paid for an OT bypass? You get "Rights" to OT at a later date? Seriously? How does that work?

At AA the word bypass makes management quiver, they get reamed when they have to pay out four free hours of OT because someone goofed while pulling the OT sign up.There is no "Get it back later"...they screw it up, you get paid for it.

Guys here watch the OT lists like hawks, if they even think they've been bypassed they get a steward and put in for the bypass.

AH! Those were the days

 

[The Janitor]

Wait, you're telling me you don't get paid for an OT bypass? You get "Rights" to OT at a later date? Seriously? How does that work?

At AA the word bypass makes management quiver, they get reamed when they have to pay out four free hours of OT because someone goofed while pulling the OT sign up.There is no "Get it back later"...they screw it up, you get paid for it.

Guys here watch the OT lists like hawks, if they even think they've been bypassed they get a steward and put in for the bypass.

we lost that in bankruptcy.

Good luck AA JFK FLeet service! Hopefully, the TWU won't bring back another pill with bonus' instead of pay raises. Stay strong, we are pulling for you to get a good contract because we are coming up to the plate in less than a year.