IAM Fleet Service topic 18 June-

[Edward]

With the other thread where it is, it's time for a new thread. Please read & observe the board rules posted at the top of the forum.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

Another station gets the ramp outsourced:

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2010/06/17/us-airways-cuts-columbus-jobs.html?sid=101


US Airways cuts Columbus jobs
Thursday, June 17, 2010 02:54 AM
BY MARLA MATZER ROSE
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

US Airways informed workers yesterday that it will eliminate 50 jobs at Port Columbus in August as it outsources some of the ground functions there to a company that has yet to be chosen...

 

[pjirish317]

Oman & The Janitor,

IMO the problem with PHX is not entirely the fault of the leadership there. I think it lies with the membership as a whole. (This is a problem systemwide). Does the leadership have a small role in this? IMO yes.(Also a systemwide problem). But the bigger problem is that the membership, (in PHX), only want's to care when it suits them, not when it suits the membership systemwide, or when the Dristrict need them to care. PHX, IMO, is a self-serving hub, much like CLT, PIT, PHL, were during BK2. We have come a long way since then. Lets give them a chance to see how far they are willing to go? Locally and systemwide for the membeship and the District. And this is not just a "West" problem either. There are plenty of "East" stations that feel the way that "PHX" does also, so spare me the jabs at the East. What we need to do is start now to try to stop the "I got mine" attitude and start looking at what the group as a whole will benefit from, not what the individual will benefit from. This should start with the District officers, down to the Grievance committee's, and then to the Shop Steward's, to talk and LISTEN to the memberships needs.

 

[mike33]

Oman & The Janitor,

IMO the problem with PHX is not entirely the fault of the leadership there. I think it lies with the membership as a whole. (This is a problem systemwide). Does the leadership have a small role in this? IMO yes.(Also a systemwide problem). But the bigger problem is that the membership, (in PHX), only want's to care when it suits them, not when it suits the membership systemwide, or when the Dristrict need them to care. PHX, IMO, is a self-serving hub, much like CLT, PIT, PHL, were during BK2. We have come a long way since then. Lets give them a chance to see how far they are willing to go? Locally and systemwide for the membeship and the District. And theis is not just a "West" problem either. There are plenty of "East" stations that fell the way that "PHX" does also, so spare me the jabs at the East. What we need to do is start now to try to stop the "I got mine" attitude and start looking at what the group as a whole will benefit from, not what the individual will benefit from. This should start with the District officers, down to the Grievance committee's, and then to the Shop Steward's, to talk and LISTEN to the memberships needs.

The local membership is a direct bi-product of its leadership. I reserve my opinions about all stations leadership because I don't know enough to comment but, I do know that CLT has come a long way and does lead by example and I'll leave it at that.

My prediction is that " Jester " for all his rebuttals to " Roa " and everyone else concerning career expectations, will be here10 yrs from now. Add that 10 to the 2 yrs or so he already has and 12 yrs might be concidered a career in most books.....................I say you've joined the gang but are not ready to admit it. :blink:

 

[pjirish317]

The local membership is a direct bi-product of its leadership. I reserve my opinions about all stations leadership because I don't know enough to comment but, I do know that CLT has come a long way and does lead by example and I'll leave it at that.
My prediction is that " Jester " for all his rebuttals to " Roa " and everyone else concerning career expectations, will be here10 yrs from now. Add that 10 to the 2 yrs or so he already has and 12 yrs might be concidered a career in most books.....................I say you've joined the gang but are not ready to admit it. :blink:

Mike,

I will totally agree here. CLT & PHL have come a long way, and they do lead by example. And you are also correct about local leadsrship. But there are alot of good people in the leadership roles, yet the membership they serve are very apathetic, and only think about individual benefits. Like the old saying goes, " you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". You can't edecuate someone who does not want to be educated.

 

[mike33]

Mike,

I will totally agree here. CLT & PHL have come a long way, and they do lead by example. And you are also correct about local leadsrship. But there are alot of good people in the leadership roles, yet the membership they serve are very apathetic, and only think about individual benefits. Like the old saying goes, " you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". You can't edecuate someone who does not want to be educated.

Also a saying..." Where there's a will. There's a way ". Get er done. Negotiations are right around the corner. Use that as a tool.

 

[mike33]

Also a saying..." Where there's a will. There's a way ". Get er done. Negotiations are right around the corner. Use that as a tool.

To say you don't know who to back because you don't like the SYSTEM is unacceptable but understandable. Vote the "Team" concept, then change the SYSTEM later. You'll never get there if you don't play the cards ur delt and walk through the door.

 

[blownkneesbob]

hey guys I know a previous poster talked about clt and there leadership . I can attest to that
statement. When the membership chose to get new guys in the grievance office . we saw a
major change in the membership . Hell I didn't even know who the previous group was until
the election and saw there names on some posters. Same held true in pit many years ago . when
the grievance committee communicates to its members on whats going on and listening to the
gripes of a few it goes along way. what happens is you start to build trust with your committee
and that means alot . I'm not going to sit and listen to some clown come around every couple of years
and tell how good he is at his job. If he is doing a good job it will naturally show. Sorry to be long winded
but my point is to build solidarity and get the membership to trust you you have to have a "open door"
policy and communicate with the membership on everything good or bad. I think the guys in
clt are doing a great job , much better than any grievance committee we ever had in pit and we had
quite a few. over 30 yrs.

 

[The Janitor]

Oman & The Janitor,

IMO the problem with PHX is not entirely the fault of the leadership there. I think it lies with the membership as a whole. (This is a problem systemwide). Does the leadership have a small role in this? IMO yes.(Also a systemwide problem). But the bigger problem is that the membership, (in PHX), only want's to care when it suits them, not when it suits the membership systemwide, or when the Dristrict need them to care. PHX, IMO, is a self-serving hub, much like CLT, PIT, PHL, were during BK2. We have come a long way since then. Lets give them a chance to see how far they are willing to go? Locally and systemwide for the membeship and the District. And this is not just a "West" problem either. There are plenty of "East" stations that feel the way that "PHX" does also, so spare me the jabs at the East. What we need to do is start now to try to stop the "I got mine" attitude and start looking at what the group as a whole will benefit from, not what the individual will benefit from. This should start with the District officers, down to the Grievance committee's, and then to the Shop Steward's, to talk and LISTEN to the memberships needs.

I will disagree 100% pjirish317

Most things rise and fall with leadership. While it is true that some places are tougher than others it is no excuse for a local committee to piss and moan about those above him and then hammer his membership's apathy because of being in a Right to Work" State. It makes no sense.

OTOH, it makes perfect sense, based on the phx voting, that the District find some way to have RR take over PHX. I'm hopeful that the District would see that the PHX leadership has no intentions of working with a ND guy, therefore in the best interest of the PHX membership I would hope that the District allow RR to take more of a leadership role in PHX. I've been told there is bad blood between RR and the ND but for the sake of the membership I would hope that RR is utilized for a very long time in PHX. PHX has spoken on this board, and through it's local committee and it has screamed "Give me Roth".

This, the District can do in the name of solidarity.

 

[pjirish317]

I will disagree 100% pjirish317

Most things rise and fall with leadership. While it is true that some places are tougher than others it is no excuse for a local committee to piss and moan about those above him and then hammer his membership's apathy because of being in a Right to Work" State. It makes no sense.

OTOH, it makes perfect sense, based on the phx voting, that the District find some way to have RR take over PHX. I'm hopeful that the District would see that the PHX leadership has no intentions of working with a ND guy, therefore in the best interest of the PHX membership I would hope that the District allow RR to take more of a leadership role in PHX. I've been told there is bad blood between RR and the ND but for the sake of the membership I would hope that RR is utilized for a very long time in PHX. PHX has spoken on this board, and through it's local committee and it has screamed "Give me Roth".

This, the District can do in the name of solidarity.

Janitor

You and I both know the mess, (that is still being cleaned up BTW), that the canoli boys left the ND08 team. I was not blaming the memberships apathy on being in a "Right to Work State", I was blaming the individuals that have no desire to get educated. East and West, because there alot on both sides. And I certainly was not blaming the leadership. I am a big supporter of all of the ND team, both in 08, and this year. So my above post was not meant to bash the leadership of the union, nor the committee's, it was aimed at the "I got mine" crowd. And what is going to happen in 2 more years when RR is up for election again? Will the District try to please 1 station over all others just to placate that station? That is not fair to the membership. That I will not support.

 

[The Janitor]

Janitor

You and I both know the mess, (that is still being cleaned up BTW), that the canoli boys left the ND08 team. I was not blaming the memberships apathy on being in a "Right to Work State", I was blaming the individuals that have no desire to get educated. East and West, because there alot on both sides. And I certainly was not blaming the leadership. I am a big supporter of all of the ND team, both in 08, and this year. So my above post was not meant to bash the leadership of the union, nor the committee's, it was aimed at the "I got mine" crowd. And what is going to happen in 2 more years when RR is up for election again? Will the District try to please 1 station over all others just to placate that station? That is not fair to the membership. That I will not support.

none of my references were towards you. Apparently, you have misread or I have not expressed clearly. You were not the one pissing and moaning about being saddled in a right to work state. The leadership in PHX is a disaster by their own device and I seriously doubt the District placates any station. But I don't think it's placating PHX when or if RR is chosen to be the District guy over there. It's all about solidarity and PHX and the Local committee work great with RR. It's the perfect match. Placating them would mean sending them our AGC, FO. We would have a bone to pick with the district if they ever placated PHX with our AGC FO. I'm sure that won't happen.

Stations need to start thinking about the negotiations team also. Our union goes back into negotiations in July but my hunch is that the proposals and screening committee will start receiving proposals in January. There needs to be like minded individuals on these cabinet posts. I've never seen in this District, whether Canale or ND, where cabinet posts are appointed to piss and moaners or those who are eternal discontents that hammer the District leadership. Just doesn't work like that. Doesn't happen in politics and doesn't happen in unions and anyone who thinks otherwise is full of themselves and fooling themselves.

We also need to quit hammering the company for things that we agreed to. There needs to be a level of credibility and accountability, and if we are going to continue hammering the company on the language we agreed to, and shook on, in our contract then we will look like morons. Do I like the contract? No. But we agreed to work under the terms of that contract. As far as attendance policy, I think we are mostly screwed because we previously agreed that the company has a right to its policies (even though attendance policies have been negotiated at many other airlines, our previous leaders negotiated as drunks and didn't bother to address attendance). That doesn't mean an employee won't win an attendance grievance because even the company policy must be administered in a fair way. I just don't see anything in our contract that prevents the company from administering its attendance policy. IMO, our negotiations team needs to address this first.

Lastly, I'm sure that mike33 is right. Jester is a career guy who is in denial. It's ok though, practically everyone I work with says that he got something going on and will only be in this job a short while. That's just how it has been in my 30 years on this ramp.

 

[700UW]

Right to Work (for less) doesnt apply to workers under the RLA.

 

[P. REZ]

none of my references were towards you. Apparently, you have misread or I have not expressed clearly. You were not the one pissing and moaning about being saddled in a right to work state. The leadership in PHX is a disaster by their own device and I seriously doubt the District placates any station. But I don't think it's placating PHX when or if RR is chosen to be the District guy over there. It's all about solidarity and PHX and the Local committee work great with RR. It's the perfect match. Placating them would mean sending them our AGC, FO. We would have a bone to pick with the district if they ever placated PHX with our AGC FO. I'm sure that won't happen.

That is a good way to get solidarity. The experience here among leaders is very valuable to the membership as a whole including the east coast. Just because we don't support the inexperience of the ND doesn't mean that we aren't in this for the good of the membership. Regardless of who our leaders might be the leaders here in PHX will continue to work with any AGC to better the working conditions for all. We will not revolt if the ND wins, we will work with them. Our opinion during this election process varies from some of you. CL was speaking of the mentality out west. He wasn't giving in. Look at the numbers we had come out to vote, not bad considering it was done in 4 days. If you want the east versus west to go away stop bashing and accept the differences we all have across the system.

P. Rez

 

[pjirish317]

That is a good way to get solidarity. The experience here among leaders is very valuable to the membership as a whole including the east coast. Just because we don't support the inexperience of the ND doesn't mean that we aren't in this for the good of the membership. Regardless of who our leaders might be the leaders here in PHX will continue to work with any AGC to better the working conditions for all. We will not revolt if the ND wins, we will work with them. Our opinion during this election process varies from some of you. CL was speaking of the mentality out west. He wasn't giving in. Look at the numbers we had come out to vote, not bad considering it was done in 4 days. If you want the east versus west to go away stop bashing and accept the differences we all have across the system.

P. Rez

PREZ,

Since you like throwing the "inexperience" card around. What exactly is your experience? Have you actually presented any cases for arbitration? If so, did you win any of them? Please give references for us to check. If you don't mind, I will do some checking of my own on your so called "experience" (or lack there of) and post what I find here. Like I have assked you before, what kind of experience would you accept? And please give a direct answer, and not some smoke and mirrors answer.

 

[roabilly]

Right to Work (for less) doesnt apply to workers under the RLA.

When we speak of “education”, it amazes me how ‘uneducated’ a lot the membership is regarding the Railway Labor Act. When the dues were raised recently, I had certain members with decades of experience threatening to leave the Union. Their explanation was that North Carolina is a Right to Work State, and they would simply revoke their membership!

I had to explain our situation regarding Airlines as a transportatin entity that is governed by the R.L.A. which is Federal. I then had to explain how this supersedes State Law. In essence... I had to clarify why you have no choice but to be a Union Member if you want work here in Fleet Service.

It is amazing how many members are not aware of R.L.A., have never attended a meeting, have never voted, nor have even bothered to read the contract for that matter! This is exactly the type of weakness the Company loves to exploit! If you are reading this... make it your mission to learn as much as possible about practicing unionism! Once you have educated yourself... educate others... become active... get involved.

I will assure you... the Company has no plans to simply cease their efforts in education, and shift their focus away from labor groups. They work 24/7 educating their senior officers, lobbying, and strategizing to remove YOU from their cost of doing business paradigm. Apathy will purchase you a life of working poverty! Make a choice!