IAM Fleet Service topic

[700UW]

Jester,

I dont care what your experience is, under the RLA, its a total different ball game.

Do you think when I was on the NC, that none of us have college degrees or specialized training?

The financial data and its model programs were on our laptops to plug the numbers in, and any contract is reviewed by lawyers before it goes to the membership, and like I said and you ignored the intent of the language.

How many arbitrations under the RLA have you presented or been part of when the arbiter asks about intent and you bring out the notes.

Just because a lawyer would be in direct negotiations doesnt change the fact the either side can challenge it when it is violated and the end result is it goes to arbitration.

So prove to me that having a lawyer and actuaries at the table will change a thing.

Even Chick Kavros the man who organized the IAM at US Airways for the M&R and participated in every contract will tell you the same, I would rather have a man who participated for 50 years in each CBA than a lawyer who has no clue about the CBA and being there wont change a thing.

 

[nascarjoe]

Jester,

I dont care what your experience is, under the RLA, its a total different ball game.

Do you think when I was on the NC, that none of us have college degrees or specialized training?

The financial data and its model programs were on our laptops to plug the numbers in, and any contract is reviewed by lawyers before it goes to the membership, and like I said and you ignored the intent of the language.

How many arbitrations under the RLA have you presented or been part of when the arbiter asks about intent and you bring out the notes.

Just because a lawyer would be in direct negotiations doesnt change the fact the either side can challenge it when it is violated and the end result is it goes to arbitration.

So prove to me that having a lawyer and actuaries at the table will change a thing.

Even Chick Kavros the man who organized the IAM at US Airways for the M&R and participated in every contract will tell you the same, I would rather have a man who participated for 50 years in each CBA than a lawyer who has no clue about the CBA and being there wont change a thing.

Have to agree with you 700. Jester, you seem to have all the answers, so why don't you get involved and make a difference, if you are fleet service. Don't want to hear your BS you won't fit in. GET INVOLVED!!!!

 

[Jester]

Jester,

I dont care what your experience is, under the RLA, its a total different ball game.

Do you think when I was on the NC, that none of us have college degrees or specialized training?

The financial data and its model programs were on our laptops to plug the numbers in, and any contract is reviewed by lawyers before it goes to the membership, and like I said and you ignored the intent of the language.

How many arbitrations under the RLA have you presented or been part of when the arbiter asks about intent and you bring out the notes.

Just because a lawyer would be in direct negotiations doesnt change the fact the either side can challenge it when it is violated and the end result is it goes to arbitration.

So prove to me that having a lawyer and actuaries at the table will change a thing.

Even Chick Kavros the man who organized the IAM at US Airways for the M&R and participated in every contract will tell you the same, I would rather have a man who participated for 50 years in each CBA than a lawyer who has no clue about the CBA and being there wont change a thing.

The proof is in the pudding, pal... and the "pudding" of this CBA came out of the back end of a cow! You have a lot of gall defending a contract for which you never worked under, and no longer work within the company, because it seems that your own union sold you down the river, so spare me about all the good your negotiating team did for you!

Furthermore, you are being intellectually dishonest that somehow there is some huge difference between negotiations between labor groups covered under the RLA versus the NLRB. The laws are different in terms of strikes and work hours, but the discussions are the same between in the give-and-take of wages, benefits, the firm's economic wherewithal, macro and microeconomic issues, contract language, and various other matters. It does not matter... seriously, if you are going challenge me on your experiences, best to find better creditable examples.

And oh boy, hot damn! They gave you laptops with spreadsheets for you play with during the discussions?! You must have felt REALLY, SUPER DUPER SPECIAL! That does not mean you or anyone else knew what they were doing either at the table or with a laptop. You are all excited because some guy turning wrenches for 50 years was thought to a skilled negotiator, as if through the osmosis of Jet A1 fuel imparted decades of education and training from a top legal or accounting firm? However, when it was all said and done, your position was eliminated... how did that "pudding" taste to you? Next time add a couple of slices of bread thereby making a sandwich of it as it might taste better!

Finally, kindly, mind your own business, as you were not part of Fleet, nor even part of the company anymore! At this point you are a busy body interloper suffering from the Helsinki Syndrome who demonstrates an affection for the organization that abused you! Let it go... for you the war is over.

So Chastises Jester.

 

[700UW]

Keep ignoring the truth and facts, keep attacking and insulting instead of actually learning.

First of all I left US on my own accord as a Stock Clerk, those jobs were not eliminated.

Second, anyone can post on a topic or thread, when you open www,jesterhatestheiam.com, then you can set the rules.

The RLA says nothing about hours.

Third, Chick didnt turn wrenches for 50 years, HE WAS A REP and NEGOTIATED all the CBAs for 50 years.

Having comprehension problems tonight?

Come back when you learn the facts.

Also still waiting on how having a lawyer and actuaries sitting at the table will make a CBA better.

 

[AP Tech]

Also still waiting on how having a lawyer and actuaries sitting at the table will make a CBA better.

Perhaps a "suit" will help with the famous grey areas....the ones missing from the now famous "highlight sheet", the same ones the IAM takes to arbitration and eventually lose or the company drags out forever. Nothing personal, but I would rather have a shyster attorney at the table than a greaser!!

On a side note, would love to have Jerry Glass on the unions side of the table vs across from them for once. He would be worth any $$$. My opinion he was the only exec who earned his pay during the previous BK's. Put the unions to shame....

 

[700UW]

I didnt see a loss in the 401k, Airbus and Attendance Control Arbitrations, now did we?

I guess you cant comprehend the fact that lawyers look over the CBA before its agreed too, cant seem to read and understand that?

 

[nascarjoe]

PHL committee chair G.A. was in PIT thursday, anybody see or talk to him? I myself missed seeing him.

 

[joeypitmann]

Joe

I returned from my two days off and learned that while step 3 hearings were taken place tues, weds and thurs and 2 more agents were terminated, G.A. was in PIT with two of his side kicks, leaving the station to be ruled by management! We are UTC almost everynight due to our bids being so screwed up due to our appointed by (GA) bid committees that have no experience, its crumbling here. Grievences are at the highest they have been in years and we all know what that means $ costs to the union and company and we all know how that screws up negotiations.

He was actually in breakrooms today informing agents that he cannot handle all this work but cannot appoint more committee men due to the (what he calls it) the law! He ran his campaign on this and he cannot come threw! Lies, lies, lies!!!! We were promised a grace period and got none and now I hear he is on the negotiations committee! WTF? Someone help!

I would also like to apologize to BJ and CB, I did read posts on my two days off and totally misunderstood them.....dont want to sound like a whiner but this is fact here in PHL right now! Sorry!

 

[AP Tech]

I didnt see a loss in the 401k, Airbus and Attendance Control Arbitrations, now did we?

The 401K was a a mistake by the company rep who I'm sure is no longer there, any moron could arbitrate that and win...no brainer, as for the other two...well at last count almost 50% of the bus s checks are being farmed out and cannot really speak about the attendance control.

 

[700UW]

A mistake? No it's how the language in the LOA was written that won the 401k arbitration.

It took a bankruptcy judge to wipe out the CBA that changed the scope language.

There was also the HMO Arbitration in the 90s we won.

The Attendance Control was that you cant be disciplined for the legitimate use of sick time.

 

[nascarjoe]

Joe

I returned from my two days off and learned that while step 3 hearings were taken place tues, weds and thurs and 2 more agents were terminated, G.A. was in PIT with two of his side kicks, leaving the station to be ruled by management! We are UTC almost everynight due to our bids being so screwed up due to our appointed by (GA) bid committees that have no experience, its crumbling here. Grievences are at the highest they have been in years and we all know what that means $ costs to the union and company and we all know how that screws up negotiations.

He was actually in breakrooms today informing agents that he cannot handle all this work but cannot appoint more committee men due to the (what he calls it) the law! He ran his campaign on this and he cannot come threw! Lies, lies, lies!!!! We were promised a grace period and got none and now I hear he is on the negotiations committee! WTF? Someone help!

I would also like to apologize to BJ and CB, I did read posts on my two days off and totally misunderstood them.....dont want to sound like a whiner but this is fact here in PHL right now! Sorry!

Talked to some people who met him, they were not impressed. If he actually said he CANNOT handle the work, you guys have a BIG PROBLEM in PHL!!! We all may have a BIG problem at negotiations with a rep like that. Maybe he needs EAP help!

 

[Marshal Dillon]

The survey is a joke! The IAM could could care less about our surveys since the website is not private and a mechanic, a manager, or a passenger can fill out our surveys. Other unions use security access codes. I mentioned this the other day but apparently nobody on this site cares. You would all rather talk sh*t about eachother and the GC of phl. Why isn't the IAM decent enough to protect our surveys and give us security codes like the other unions? Who is filling these surveys out? What a joke!

 

[Jester]

700UW,

In recent days, we have had a rather heated discussion on the issue of the importance of educational and experience from those who negotiate our collective bargaining agreements. Your insights would have not been possible if not for your direct interactions with the parties involved, and I doubt anyone from the IAM would have been so candid if anyone else had challenge them as directly, as I have with you.

I regret not having the IAM negotiation team’s example as an actual business case study in my college days decades ago of what I would call “incestuous cronyism” resulting in substandard outcomes of the collective bargaining agreements. I say “incestuous” because the results of interbreeding amongst related family members leads to offspring who are often times mentally ill and of poor general health, and I say “cronyism” because it would appear the only qualifications to be on the IAM’s negotiations team would be someone that is liked, well-known and trusted. Outside professionals need not apply, as they cannot be “trusted” and they are not “well-known” after working 30 years on the line, thus the “incest” of a closed “family” is more likely to have unfavorable results “borne” of this arrangement. I have little doubt that “groupthink” could be an accurate, except that happens when within even diverse collections of people who are relative strangers to each other, and that is clearly not the IAM negotiating team.

You have continued to ask me as to what good would attorneys or accountants provide to the direct negotiations, and I am stunned, not only by your hostile attitude against professionals, but the obtuse naiveté in refusing to see a link between a legal document based upon serious financial considerations, and the benefit of attorneys and accountants in the process. Instead you prefer to relegate these professionals to behind the scenes, and let the people with no formal training in the financial and legal field handle the terms of the agreement directly. I believe this is akin to asking my attorney to clean-out the drains in my house and her calling the plumber to provide instructions, or hiring my plumber to write my will and him calling my attorney to ask for advice. Everyone should have a place at the negotiating table, because I doubt there are many in Fleet who would consider this last CBA to be something they are satisfied and not in need of serious modifications, in essence, we need new blood to the process. If you cannot understand the importance of outside professionals to the direct negotiating process then you are very much part of the “incestuous cronyism” as I described earlier.

Again, thank-you, as usually with case studies of actual situations the parties involved at the time are not likely to be as open or candid about their short-comings due to embarrassment or confidential information. Normally, it is someone who has retired from the organization with nothing to lose that provides the insights to the personnel involved, which would be you in this case, who provide invaluable insights to the interworking and thinking process.

Finally, to my fellow fleet service agents, if this negotiating team is as dysfunctional, ill-equipped as 700UW’s describes in his diatribes of defense, then be prepared for another disappointing CBA. Furthermore, do not expect much else your leadership, as I do not care if they are called “New Direction”, “New Deal”, “New and Improved” or “New Kids on the Block”, because it will not matter as they are suffering from the same systemic problems, as I described earlier. I could only offer three words of advice-- “Southwest is hiring.”

So Thanks Jester.

 

[nascarjoe]

The survey is a joke! The IAM could could care less about our surveys since the website is not private and a mechanic, a manager, or a passenger can fill out our surveys. Other unions use security access codes. I mentioned this the other day but apparently nobody on this site cares. You would all rather talk sh*t about eachother and the GC of phl. Why isn't the IAM decent enough to protect our surveys and give us security codes like the other unions? Who is filling these surveys out? What a joke!

Good Point Dillon! This is just the first of many other surveys to come, I've been told. Hopefully the others will be more secure.

 

[robbedagain]

I would rather wait and see how this ND team will handle the negogiations. I didnt care for RC and his team as they threw the membership under the bus allowed the PVDand BDL to be added to Class I list to get a contract thru. I just hope that the ND team will try to get a lot of what we lost back.