if we cannot recommend it, we’re not sending it

[eolesen]

"Another business unit"? Of the same company?

Getting way off topic... PM me if you really need a full disclosure statement.... 🙄 :blink:

 

[paul1]

reads fleet to me

and you expect people to vote for you ?

TWU “Suspends” Tentative Contract Agreement for 11,000 Fleet Service Workers at American Airlines

Unresolved Issues Prevent Union from Recommending Agreement to TWU Members

DALLAS --The Transport Workers Union of America (TWU), bargaining agent for fleet service workers at American Airlines, has “suspended” a tentative agreement announced last week with AMR for fleet service workers who handle baggage, clean aircraft, deice and fuel planes, move freight and are charged with other responsibilities on the ground at the airline.

TWU International President James C. Little, in reversing the actions of the fleet service bargaining team, which had decided to send the agreement to members with a “no” vote recommendation, said, “If we can’t recommend it, we’re not sending it. Certain issues on the bargaining table had not been resolved. This agreement should be considered suspended until outstanding issues are fully resolved.”

 

[comatose]

just bring this thing to a vote already if it gets voted in its already time to start all over again

and yes I'm most likely a yes vote

the best we ever got from the company was 93 or 95 and the twu had nothing to really do with it

this union $%#$%

its amazing all the contracts that get voted in and all I hear is all the babies on the floor crying the loudest how to vote no

hey asig.com is hiring nice .50 cents above min. wage in il (and other places)go get it boys

Vote yes without final language....sorry but thats about most destructive act you could possibly make.
Vote yes and outsource your own job(it's not a career anymore).

 

[paul1]

well yes we defintely need final language can vote on something with all these holes wish the TWU would tell whats going on

 

[1AA]

I have never heard of a union negotiating committee sending a T/A to the members to vote on that is incomplete. This is a sign of union leadership or lack of that is bought and owned by the company. This union negotiating committee or the leadership is weak and an embarrassment to all unions in this world not just the USA. If you vote YES for a contract that is still being negotiated you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself for forgiveness. I know several members of the committee voted NOT to bring this T/A for a vote. I respect you for standing up and supporting your members wishes. The presidents that sold their souls to the International should be reminded where they came from. You will have your day when the time comes to face the music.

 

[olderguyAMT]

Here are some ideas, of course, all IMO.

Arpey has no apparent respect for anything that is not printed on the Ballance Sheet. He avoids placing any value on our contributions in the Working Together Plans, and easily discounts the massive concessions of 2003. Cannot put them on that Ballance Sheet, so they are worthless.
Still he says we must lower our labor costs so we can compete. The answer to that is controversial and complicated. How does the competition compete with AA? they outscource, we don't. But can we place a value on In-house work? IMO, yes, but you won't see it on the Ballance Sheet, so it has no value to Arpey.
Is it really better to ourscource the Heavy Maint? Maybe not the best plan to save money, if you consider all aspects. Pay full retail for the parts, and lose timing control. Plus, don't make any parts in-house, just pay lots more for them, including shipping. Every day the plane sits on the ground the Co. loses revs. Just a few ideas there. So following this logic, I don't think that the Co. would want to outscource heavy maint. and Arpey has a secret. The Co. may not want to reveal the truth about this, as that would give the union leverage in negotiations. Better to Stall, Stall, Stall in negotiations and finally seek concessions from the workers with a TA that benefits the Co. more than it benefits us. After all, their main goal is to cut our labor costs and keep their bonus check plans, because they really know that they are the most important, after all.

This TA is a coup for the Co., a major win for them at our expense. They clearly won this poker game.
I have talked to a few folks about this TA.
and the ones who would vote yes, say that this is the best that we will get, and are afraid of a lockout/strike. They say the economoy is still in shambles and they are worried, so take what the Co. offers, as it is ok, for now. They are fully entrenched in the Yes vote, even before the fine print comes out. That puzzles me.

IMO, the Co. does not want a strike, and most of us, ditto. think of the NWA fiasco.

Here is why the Co. will seek to avoid a strike:
First I must pose a question to all. Who is the most influential one on the AMR Board of Directors? Ok, it has to be David L. Boren, who is so important to the city, that they named streets after him. He knows the economic impact of the maint. base here, and if it should shrink, the economic results would be devestating, and, any bean-couter will know it. You know he has the ear of Arpey.
Plus look at all the bennies the Co. gets from the local community in Tulsa.
They rent the 300 acre maint base for a buck a year from the city, and just got a free $10 million Rub hangar, not to mention the Vision 2025 bailout money to save local jobs. That money came from Tulsa County.
The local politicians don't want a strike/lockout and same for the Governor of OK.
My point is that we, the union, may have more leverage than some realize.

So why the smelly TA on our doorsteps?

This is an extremely concessionary TA, which should have NEVER been ok'd by the union. It even violates Jim Little's promises to the members.
Now I ask, what caused Jimmy to compromise his principles? Think about it...I don't know what it was, but is sure seems like he has stepped into a big dung pile here. I challenge Jim Little to respond in this forum.

Fess up and let us all know the truth, or pull the TA and give us a fair contract that minimizes internal conflict.

What....What,

What caused the Co. to start haggling after a couple of long years of stalling tactics?
Is the Merger Mania bug got ahold of Arpey and Co. ?? Is it a need to settle labor contracts to facilitate the engagement talks with JetBlue? What truly convinced Steve Louis and others to bring this TA back for a vote? Why did they appear to quickly accept the lowball offer from the Co. ?? After all, the general economy is said to be improving. Traffic numbers are up, fares are up, things are getting better, right? Continental Airlines, CAL, is good about releasing info. monthly. Their Unit Rev's are up bigtime for May. Why would AMR be any different. If we ratify this TA now, how many regrets will we have after the Co. spins-off American Ealge for $2.4 Billion??????

We can look at this scenario from two different perspectives, one being personal and the other is from a union brotherhood viewpoint.
The personal view is all about what is in it for me, and the brotherhood view is about how it effects all of us as a union.

The Co. may want us to think selfishly here, and that is what pits one brother against another. Apparently this concept of brotherhood is not to be found in the fancy offices of the International TWU. I think they should be capable of bringing back a better TA. TWU, we need a better negotiating team, right?

What went wrong?

We will know the Union Electon results before the ratification vote on the TA, right? Deadline for ballots is 14 July, right? This outcome will say a lot. What will the cavemen say?

 

[The Goose]

Good thinking, older guy, but I can guarantee there will be a few who don't like your common sense approach.

Common sense is no longer common, rather a rarity.

 

[The Goose]

well yes we defintely need final language can vote on something with all these holes wish the TWU would tell whats going on

It is not in the best interests of the TWU to tell the membership what is going on but they will be trying much manipulation in the coming weeks trying to instill a fear of voting "no" in the rank and file. The recent letter from Luis sent to all members' homes was the beginning. You're far better off reading it and interpreting for yourself.

As a mechanic (or at least a high school graduate as you had to be in order to hire on at American), you should be able to read for yourself and form questions as to what this TA is saying. Ask those questions of the "representation" at your hall or of your steward. If there's no answer or a poor answer (in your opinion) or you feel the slightest brush-off, you have your answer and the TWU shouldn't expect anything but a resounding NO vote.

I have no intention of attending any of the "poo" sessions put on at 514's hall re: TA Q&As as I don't expect there to be any honest, accurate, or truthful answers. These SOBs can talk for hours and not say anything. I'll be figuring that out for myself and I won't be asking questions of professional liars.

Anything out of line, "To Be Announced" (this ain't a TV schedule) or omitted in the published material on the union's website and I will quit reading at that point and simply vote no. Everything will be there. If this TA is not included as part of the ballot regardless of having been posted on a website or not, I will simply vote NO.

I have learned over time (the hard way) to not trust those who "have your back" for profit and there are far too many unaccountable individuals in this so-called "union" to do otherwise.

 

[High Speed Steel]

It is not in the best interests of the TWU to tell the membership what is going on but they will be trying much manipulation in the coming weeks trying to instill a fear of voting "no" in the rank and file. The recent letter from Luis sent to all members' homes was the beginning. You're far better off reading it and interpreting for yourself.

As a mechanic (or at least a high school graduate as you had to be in order to hire on at American), you should be able to read for yourself and form questions as to what this TA is saying. Ask those questions of the "representation" at your hall or of your steward. If there's no answer or a poor answer (in your opinion) or you feel the slightest brush-off, you have your answer and the TWU shouldn't expect anything but a resounding NO vote.

I have no intention of attending any of the "poo" sessions put on at 514's hall re: TA Q&As as I don't expect there to be any honest, accurate, or truthful answers. These SOBs can talk for hours and not say anything. I'll be figuring that out for myself and I won't be asking questions of professional liars.

Anything out of line, "To Be Announced" (this ain't a TV schedule) or omitted in the published material on the union's website and I will quit reading at that point and simply vote no. Everything will be there. If this TA is not included as part of the ballot regardless of having been posted on a website or not, I will simply vote NO.

I have learned over time (the hard way) to not trust those who "have your back" for profit and there are far too many unaccountable individuals in this so-called "union" to do otherwise.

Wow Goose, You seem to hang a tall order upon our shop stewards to accurately respond to your questions. I don't know if you realize this but our contract is a rather complicated and covers over 47 articles. We have a great team of stewards at our local and not all are proficient in the entire agreement including myself. You just want to add complaints and add conspiracy to what ever the topic without first, reading your contract and finding the answer for yourself or second, considering reasonable answers to what troubles your mind from the stewards you approach. It's probably a good thing they shut you down over at 514....

 

[The Goose]

Wow Goose, You seem to hang a tall order upon our shop stewards to accurately respond to your questions. I don't know if you realize this but our contract is a rather complicated and covers over 47 articles. We have a great team of stewards at our local and not all are proficient in the entire agreement including myself. You just want to add complaints and add conspiracy to what ever the topic without first, reading your contract and finding the answer for yourself or second, considering reasonable answers to what troubles your mind from the stewards you approach. It's probably a good thing they shut you down over at 514....

You're welcome to defend this "union" all you wish. I simply detailed my requirements to consider a "yes" vote.

As do most of your type, you enjoy throwing the word "conspiracy" out there in order to belittle those who see through the smokescreen of lies you and others choose to perpetuate knowing full well you'll not find another gig like you have. It's only natural to attempt to protect what you feel is best but you'll eventually be out in the cold as will be the rest unless you're actually part of the problem.

By the way - I expect a steward to address and put to bed any concerns anyone may have. I have no tolerance for those who blow off a question by treating it with ridicule simply because they don't like it or said question challenges their "faith" - anybody you might know?

Blind faith in poor leadership does not equate to a functioning union, but it does get your dues paid each month. This blind faith from some members has done more to turn me against the TWU than anything else - it seems very much like those who hang on the every word of the multi-millionaire TV preachers.

I'll leave you the last word.

 

[The Goose]

... snip
We will know the Union Electon results before the ratification vote on the TA, right? Deadline for ballots is 14 July, right? This outcome will say a lot. What will the cavemen say?

My guess would be the majority will vote for their "friends" as usual and then wonder why doing the exact same thing resulted in no changes.

As best as I recall, that's the classic definition of insanity.

 

[Man of the People]

Here are some ideas, of course, all IMO.

Arpey has no apparent respect for anything that is not printed on the Ballance Sheet. He avoids placing any value on our contributions in the Working Together Plans, and easily discounts the massive concessions of 2003. Cannot put them on that Ballance Sheet, so they are worthless.
Still he says we must lower our labor costs so we can compete. The answer to that is controversial and complicated. How does the competition compete with AA? they outscource, we don't. But can we place a value on In-house work? IMO, yes, but you won't see it on the Ballance Sheet, so it has no value to Arpey.
Is it really better to ourscource the Heavy Maint? Maybe not the best plan to save money, if you consider all aspects. Pay full retail for the parts, and lose timing control. Plus, don't make any parts in-house, just pay lots more for them, including shipping. Every day the plane sits on the ground the Co. loses revs. Just a few ideas there. So following this logic, I don't think that the Co. would want to outscource heavy maint. and Arpey has a secret. The Co. may not want to reveal the truth about this, as that would give the union leverage in negotiations. Better to Stall, Stall, Stall in negotiations and finally seek concessions from the workers with a TA that benefits the Co. more than it benefits us. After all, their main goal is to cut our labor costs and keep their bonus check plans, because they really know that they are the most important, after all.

This TA is a coup for the Co., a major win for them at our expense. They clearly won this poker game.
I have talked to a few folks about this TA.
and the ones who would vote yes, say that this is the best that we will get, and are afraid of a lockout/strike. They say the economoy is still in shambles and they are worried, so take what the Co. offers, as it is ok, for now. They are fully entrenched in the Yes vote, even before the fine print comes out. That puzzles me.

IMO, the Co. does not want a strike, and most of us, ditto. think of the NWA fiasco.

Here is why the Co. will seek to avoid a strike:
First I must pose a question to all. Who is the most influential one on the AMR Board of Directors? Ok, it has to be David L. Boren, who is so important to the city, that they named streets after him. He knows the economic impact of the maint. base here, and if it should shrink, the economic results would be devestating, and, any bean-couter will know it. You know he has the ear of Arpey.
Plus look at all the bennies the Co. gets from the local community in Tulsa.
They rent the 300 acre maint base for a buck a year from the city, and just got a free $10 million Rub hangar, not to mention the Vision 2025 bailout money to save local jobs. That money came from Tulsa County.
The local politicians don't want a strike/lockout and same for the Governor of OK.
My point is that we, the union, may have more leverage than some realize.

So why the smelly TA on our doorsteps?

This is an extremely concessionary TA, which should have NEVER been ok'd by the union. It even violates Jim Little's promises to the members.
Now I ask, what caused Jimmy to compromise his principles? Think about it...I don't know what it was, but is sure seems like he has stepped into a big dung pile here. I challenge Jim Little to respond in this forum.

Fess up and let us all know the truth, or pull the TA and give us a fair contract that minimizes internal conflict.

What....What,

What caused the Co. to start haggling after a couple of long years of stalling tactics?
Is the Merger Mania bug got ahold of Arpey and Co. ?? Is it a need to settle labor contracts to facilitate the engagement talks with JetBlue? What truly convinced Steve Louis and others to bring this TA back for a vote? Why did they appear to quickly accept the lowball offer from the Co. ?? After all, the general economy is said to be improving. Traffic numbers are up, fares are up, things are getting better, right? Continental Airlines, CAL, is good about releasing info. monthly. Their Unit Rev's are up bigtime for May. Why would AMR be any different. If we ratify this TA now, how many regrets will we have after the Co. spins-off American Ealge for $2.4 Billion??????

We can look at this scenario from two different perspectives, one being personal and the other is from a union brotherhood viewpoint.
The personal view is all about what is in it for me, and the brotherhood view is about how it effects all of us as a union.

The Co. may want us to think selfishly here, and that is what pits one brother against another. Apparently this concept of brotherhood is not to be found in the fancy offices of the International TWU. I think they should be capable of bringing back a better TA. TWU, we need a better negotiating team, right?

What went wrong?

We will know the Union Electon results before the ratification vote on the TA, right? Deadline for ballots is 14 July, right? This outcome will say a lot. What will the cavemen say?

After reviewing Jim L.'s philosophy, expect the soon to be ex-514 president to get picked up at the International ATD before the counting of the ballots. I have heard Jim L. does not pick up Officers who have just lost elections. The last ones were Joe Gordo and Tim G. I believe. Dennis B. went to the ATD the last time because he knew he could not win the last election. Same for Gless a few years prior. It's cleaner for Jim L. pick these guys up prior to losing an election. Steve L's ego must believe he has a good shot at winning, otherwise he would not have to go through the process of campaigning. His ego will be his achilles heel. There is still time for Steve L. to make his 11th hour plea to Little, because from what I am hearing and seeing on the floor, his reign is almost over.

 

[Large Grey]

TWU President Jim Little told the world, "If we can't recommend it, we're not sending it,"

I would like to see the names of the negotiators openly recommending this contract.

Is this statement a complete fabrication or is there any merit to it?

Steve Luis, Local 514 President, will not look me in the eye and recommend this contract.

Too Little, Too Late - it's time to renegotiate. I'm feeling sick again. On damn. I can't leave without conducting a very close inspection of the wire bundles once more. Oh look at that! scribble scribble... Hello, ... FAA?

 

[olderguyAMT]

After reviewing Jim L.'s philosophy, expect the soon to be ex-514 president to get picked up at the International ATD before the counting of the ballots. I have heard Jim L. does not pick up Officers who have just lost elections. The last ones were Joe Gordo and Tim G. I believe. Dennis B. went to the ATD the last time because he knew he could not win the last election. Same for Gless a few years prior. It's cleaner for Jim L. pick these guys up prior to losing an election. Steve L's ego must believe he has a good shot at winning, otherwise he would not have to go through the process of campaigning. His ego will be his achilles heel. There is still time for Steve L. to make his 11th hour plea to Little, because from what I am hearing and seeing on the floor, his reign is almost over.

Man of the people, I agree. Mr. Steve days are numbered, and his ultra-high ego won't allow him to recognize the truth.

and now, I suppose that this could happen...

What if SL loses the election by a landslide, and Mr. Jimmiy says no to that fancy office job at the Intl. after he pulls the TA.

ok, I just woke up, must have been dreaming. :unsure:

LOL

 

[olderguyAMT]

My guess would be the majority will vote for their "friends" as usual and then wonder why doing the exact same thing resulted in no changes.

As best as I recall, that's the classic definition of insanity.

The union should do this as soon as possible:

There is a list of the nominees on the TWU website.
So why not let each have 300 word text file linked to each name with a hyperlink.

then we would know how they stand on the issues.
Getting a little card that says Mr. or Mrs. Shmoe is running for xxxxx is just not enough. Alan Ball are you listening?
Mike McDonald, are you listening?

Some incumbents are just looking for a free ride, and never know anything. They are not IN THE LOOP, maybe of their own choosing. and I think they have their heads in the sand.
Mr. Jimmy has just made all incumbents at risk for losing the election. All incumbents should be worried. A prediction.....
There should be a lot of new faces in the Union Hall. right?


Hey, remember when Clinton was the President? he didn't scratch his ass without consulting the polls to gain insight into what the common man was thinking. Do our Union leaders care what we think? Does Mr. Jimmy value our opinions after the ok of this smelly TA that most think is disgusting? He really needs to rethink his position, and may be doing just that, according to the rumor-mill. Mr. Jimmy, TAKE A POLL ON THE ISSUES! and start reading the message boards. Local 562 has a new forum on its website.



Here is a link for gas and oil prices....I hope this works...

My link

jet fuel should be cheap this summer, and hey , AMR profits may come before the end of the year. Right?