Industrial vs. Craft

[aapitbull]

Is talking horses YOUR idea of spreading the TRUTH??

I gave you a plus one for reposting Mr Ed, Thanks

 

[aapitbull]

The Teamsters do not dislike our Stock Clerks, they just do not want them. The Stock Clerks have been promised, as well the Fleet Service to the TWU in exchange for the AA Mechanics. Anything to keep AMFA off the property at AA.

Buck this cannot be CAPT David B. assured us in his video that there was no deal with the TWU that the drive is real he said nothing of not wanting the stock clerks so I am sorry but someone is going to have to explain it to me.

 

[Anomaly]

So is the above your version of the "Truth"?

You are not here to converse the TRUTH,

you are here to be entertained.

In your own words

You posted Mr Ed as the spokes - horse of whats true.

Then again, MAYBE the truth is in Third Seat Hero's posted video of Hoffa supporting the TWU?

Additionally, how could the teamsters claim to be true unionists after Hoffa himself made this video just this past June?


I find it sadly amusing that so many at American seem willing to turn a blind eye to what is obviously a farce.

But again that is of course just my opinion.

Unfortunately, you or he never really listened to the video did you? Had you taken the 2 minutes and 10 seconds to do that, you may have noticed that the speech was intended for the Australian TWU and Tony Sheldon, not Jim Little. It was clear on the video, but perhaps it was your intention to deceive??

Is this the version of the "TRUTH" you accept????

 

[767 mechanic]

I will agree with the bold part of your statement above. But that is about it. The history of AMFA for the 35th time was to attempt to EXCLUDE the cleaners from the maintenance class and craft prior to any election. This was standard for ALL AMFA raids. First, declare a card drive, second, petition the NMB to have the cleaners removed from the class and craft, third, loose the chance to have a vote due to a lack of cards, and finally, protest the whole issue again blaming the cleaners for the lack of cards.

They did it over and over again for years. Look it up for yourself on the NMB web site. All the past appeals are there, but it does require some reading. Educate yourself before you call someone a liar. Ignorance is curable my friend. I'm here to help. B)

You correct ignorance is curable,but that is not your problem.You know exactly what you are doing and lieing again,so I guess you graduated to common liar. You know as well as I do that this happened once in I believe the late 60s or early 70s and the NMB said no they are part of your craft and class,but you lie to the people on this forum by saying it happens everytime. The appeals process comes after an eligability list is presented to the NMB. As I have said before those appeals are for people that were put on list that did not work in our craft and class. An example is a fleet service clerk that spends 51% or more of there time doing a/c cleaner is eligable and a FSC that spends 50% or less of there time doing a/c cleaner work is not eligable.The union and the company intentionally put these people on the list to pad the numbers to inflate it,but you already know this and are here to confuse the readers on what the actual truth is.Tell me this,how do you petition the NMB for a list of cleaners before you have filed the cards? Cleaners at AA are fleet service clerks that bid every 90 days and if a card drive lasts 1 year that list could change 4 times during a card drive. And you call me ignorant? Yes I know what the NMB website says and you are misrepresenting the facts again as usual. You are here to confuse the people and not allow them to educate themselves and get the truth. Your statement above is a perfect example of you lieing to the members and this is the type of representation you get from the teamsters. I would rather stay with the twu. Oh wait that is why the teamsters are are here anyway right. This not a raid by ibt it is only a raid if it is the AMFA.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Unfortunately, you or he never really listened to the video did you? Had you taken the 2 minutes and 10 seconds to do that, you may have noticed that the speech was intended for the Australian TWU and Tony Sheldon, not Jim Little. It was clear on the video, but perhaps it was your intention to deceive??

Is this the version of the "TRUTH" you accept????

As the original poster of the TWU/Hoffa video, I would like to apologize to the members of this board for while it was never my intent to deceive the readers here, I may have done so after posting the TWU/Hoffa video on a false assumption.

I posted the video to draw attention to the inconsistencies in the events surrounding the ibt raid on American. As many of you are already aware, the TWU and the ibt have been working together for some time now(the TWU aiding in the organizing effort at UAL, etc) When I first saw the video, I did note that Hoffa mentioned Tony Sheldon and not Jim Little, it was at this point I made the mistake of assuming the TWU of Australia was a segment of the TWU of America similar to how the IAM in Canada IS part of the IAM here in the states. This however was not true.

Again, it was never my intent to deceive anyone, I apologize for posting the video without first verifying it as it related to the topic in question. As of this posting, I retract my statements related to that video.

TSH

 

[TWU informer]

As the original poster of the TWU/Hoffa video, I would like to apologize to the members of this board for while it was never my intent to deceive the readers here, I may have done so after posting the TWU/Hoffa video on a false assumption.

I posted the video to draw attention to the inconsistencies in the events surrounding the ibt raid on American. As many of you are already aware, the TWU and the ibt have been working together for some time now(the TWU aiding in the organizing effort at UAL, etc) When I first saw the video, I did note that Hoffa mentioned Tony Sheldon and not Jim Little, it was at this point I made the mistake of assuming the TWU of Australia was a segment of the TWU of America similar to how the IAM in Canada IS part of the IAM here in the states. This however was not true.

Again, it was never my intent to deceive anyone, I apologize for posting the video without first verifying it as it related to the topic in question. As of this posting, I retract my statements related to that video.

TSH

Yeah, but is there a Los Angeles in Australia?

Hoffa mentions the "Global" union partnership and then mentions TWU coming to the rescue of the Teamsters in Los Angeles?

I have looked over my World Atlas at least 8 times, and I cannot find a Los Angeles anywhere in Australia?

Show me the Mapquest of Los Angeles, Australia and my suspicions will be removed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NCctDbTZr9Q

 

[TWU informer]

You posted Mr Ed as the spokes - horse of whats true.

Then again, MAYBE the truth is in Third Seat Hero's posted video of Hoffa supporting the TWU?





Unfortunately, you or he never really listened to the video did you? Had you taken the 2 minutes and 10 seconds to do that, you may have noticed that the speech was intended for the Australian TWU and Tony Sheldon, not Jim Little. It was clear on the video, but perhaps it was your intention to deceive??

Is this the version of the "TRUTH" you accept????

Yeah, but is there a Los Angeles in Australia?

Hoffa mentions the "Global" union partnership and then mentions TWU coming to the rescue of the Teamsters in Los Angeles?

I have looked over my World Atlas at least 8 times, and I cannot find a Los Angeles anywhere in Australia?

Show me the Mapquest of Los Angeles, Australia and my suspicions will be removed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NCctDbTZr9Q

 

[amtcraig1]

Myths about AMFA? Why is there an AMFA drive
at AA in the first place? It's because of the structure
of the twu. The twu does not allow for the membership
to elect everyone in office. AMFA is based on Democracy
where everyone is elected. Not so with the twu or teamsters.
That is fact not myth.

Now try and spin that into a lie.

Go AMFA!

You are right everyone is elected, look at ther current election "candidates for National Office" six positions, out of those six two are running unopposed......Look at the last election on "AMFA Constitution Amendments Referendum" only 468 cast votes out of 2581
eligible voters..... Thats only 18.13%? What a Democracy? Someone should ask the members to at least get involved with this Democracy...Just vote! Hey but the up side for you...if AA members are like the rest of us. When AMFA get in there you should be a
shoe-in

 

[Anomaly]

As the original poster of the TWU/Hoffa video, I would like to apologize to the members of this board for while it was never my intent to deceive the readers here, I may have done so after posting the TWU/Hoffa video on a false assumption.

I posted the video to draw attention to the inconsistencies in the events surrounding the ibt raid on American. As many of you are already aware, the TWU and the ibt have been working together for some time now(the TWU aiding in the organizing effort at UAL, etc) When I first saw the video, I did note that Hoffa mentioned Tony Sheldon and not Jim Little, it was at this point I made the mistake of assuming the TWU of Australia was a segment of the TWU of America similar to how the IAM in Canada IS part of the IAM here in the states. This however was not true.

Again, it was never my intent to deceive anyone, I apologize for posting the video without first verifying it as it related to the topic in question. As of this posting, I retract my statements related to that video.

TSH

Yeah, but is there a Los Angeles in Australia?

Hoffa mentions the "Global" union partnership and then mentions TWU coming to the rescue of the Teamsters in Los Angeles?

I have looked over my World Atlas at least 8 times, and I cannot find a Los Angeles anywhere in Australia?

Show me the Mapquest of Los Angeles, Australia and my suspicions will be removed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NCctDbTZr9Q

Give it a break Francis. YOU got caught on this one. Next time try fact checking.

 

[Anomaly]

As the original poster of the TWU/Hoffa video, I would like to apologize to the members of this board for while it was never my intent to deceive the readers here, I may have done so after posting the TWU/Hoffa video on a false assumption.

I posted the video to draw attention to the inconsistencies in the events surrounding the ibt raid on American. As many of you are already aware, the TWU and the ibt have been working together for some time now(the TWU aiding in the organizing effort at UAL, etc) When I first saw the video, I did note that Hoffa mentioned Tony Sheldon and not Jim Little, it was at this point I made the mistake of assuming the TWU of Australia was a segment of the TWU of America similar to how the IAM in Canada IS part of the IAM here in the states. This however was not true.

Again, it was never my intent to deceive anyone, I apologize for posting the video without first verifying it as it related to the topic in question. As of this posting, I retract my statements related to that video.

TSH

TSH,

It was when I googled Tony Sheldon and the mention of Qantas Air what gave it away. We all make mistakes. You showed integrity for owning it. I will not bring it up again.

 

[TWU informer]

TSH,

It was when I googled Tony Sheldon and the mention of Qantas Air what gave it away. We all make mistakes. You showed integrity for owning it. I will not bring it up again.

I will gladly bring it up again.

Where is Los Angeles, Australia and since when does a "Global Patnership" not include the United States of America?

 

[Anomaly]

You correct ignorance is curable,but that is not your problem.You know exactly what you are doing and lieing again,so I guess you graduated to common liar. You know as well as I do that this happened once in I believe the late 60s or early 70s and the NMB said no they are part of your craft and class,but you lie to the people on this forum by saying it happens everytime. The appeals process comes after an eligability list is presented to the NMB. As I have said before those appeals are for people that were put on list that did not work in our craft and class. An example is a fleet service clerk that spends 51% or more of there time doing a/c cleaner is eligable and a FSC that spends 50% or less of there time doing a/c cleaner work is not eligable.The union and the company intentionally put these people on the list to pad the numbers to inflate it,but you already know this and are here to confuse the readers on what the actual truth is.Tell me this,how do you petition the NMB for a list of cleaners before you have filed the cards? Cleaners at AA are fleet service clerks that bid every 90 days and if a card drive lasts 1 year that list could change 4 times during a card drive. And you call me ignorant? Yes I know what the NMB website says and you are misrepresenting the facts again as usual. You are here to confuse the people and not allow them to educate themselves and get the truth. Your statement above is a perfect example of you lieing to the members and this is the type of representation you get from the teamsters. I would rather stay with the twu. Oh wait that is why the teamsters are are here anyway right. This not a raid by ibt it is only a raid if it is the AMFA.

You accuse people of lying because of your own ignorance. I do not mean that as an insult, however, just because you do not take the time to research the facts, does not make ME a liar. It makes you unknowable of the facts. Ignorant. Like I said, it is curable.

Your statement;
You know as well as I do that this happened once in I believe the late 60s or early 70s

This is an incorrect statement and I'm sorry about this, a bit ignorant also.

In 1989 there was an attempted raid at UA. The raid began like most others. A grass roots effort to bring the mechanics only union in to UAL. The promise was the union would be mechanics only. The theory was to collect cards only from mechanics as the cleaning classifications were once again being petitioned to be removed from the M&R class and craft.

The NMB refused the case and the card drive failed. In 1991, another attempt was made using the same tactics. Enough cards were collected from the mechanics, however, the same decision was made not to collect from the cleaners, hoping once again to be able to remove these employees from the class and craft. This time the NMB heard the case after it was preliminarily thought there was enough cards. But it too was denied, and the drive failed to have the amount of signitures needed to trigger an election once again.

In 1994, another attempt was made at NWA to remove the cleaners from the Class and craft. I have a paper document written on July 26, 1994 which is a decision signed by NMB Board Representative Maurice A Parker denying AMFA's request.

The application and accompanying addendum filed by AMFA , requested that certain employees be excluded from the Mechanics and related Class and Craft: specifically the application asked that the folowing classifcations be excluded: Lead Cleaner, Cleaner, Lead Custodian, Custodian.

The record reflects that both AMFA and the IAM&AW were involved in a previous representational dispute resulting in an election during May, 1991. In that election, the employees sought to be excuded by the applicant in the current application were "included" as eligable voters in the 1991 election. Accordingly I must adhere to the Board prcedent. The employees sought to be excluded by the applicant will be "included" as eligable voters for the purposes of this investigation.


The case number is NMB CR-6552. Again it is a paper copy so you will have to look it up through the NMB web site yourself.

TWU Informer claimed ignorant on this too and I posted the following on June 26 on a different thread.

They did this at least 4 times that I am aware. First in 1968, United Air Lines, 5 NMB 65, 77 (1968); again in 1977, United Air Lines, 6 NMB 134 (1977); in 1991, Northwest Airlines, 18 NMB 357 (1991) and finally in 1994 is the last case I have record of NMB CR-6545, United Airlines (1994).

After the NMB denied the separation, AMFA would a appeal the case always citing that the NMB was unfair. As I said, the elections were normally called off because AMFA would fail to collect cards from cleaners, and the numbers they did have from Mechanics could not compensate for the loss.

This went on until the late 1990's when AMFA gave up trying to dismiss the cleaners before an election and, changing tactics, focused their funds on winning the mechanics. Despite the IAM's push to get the cleaner vote, AMFA overwhelmingly won representation of the Mechanics at NWA in 1999. This was the end of trying to separate the classes before an election.

Below is a scanned a copy of AMFA's rebutal to the NMB after the NMB decided to keep the cleaners in the mechanics Class and Craft. I still have many of the campagn material used in the prior AMFA elections at UAL.


Mr. Ernest Dubester
Chairman
National Mediations Board
1301 K. Street, NW, Ste. 250 East
Washington, D. C. 20572-0002
VIA FAX
Re: NMB CASE CR6545 United Airlines, Inc.
Re: NMB Case CR6550 Northwest Airlines

August 1,1994

Dear Mr. Dubester:
I tried to reach you today, but you were out of your off ice. This letter will suffice.
tt has come to our attention that inside information from the NMB regarding the aforementioned cases is emanating from the IAM. We feel we aren't getting a fair, impartial decision from the Board.

Example:A few days before the mediator's decision on CR-6550, dated July 26,1994 the IAM disseminated inforrnation that he would not allow AMFA to present their position to the Board. Their prediction was correct.

The IAM through their shop stewards are now Saying that the UAL case (CR-6545) will be over in a week and they told their supporters not to worry about the AMFA election because it is over.

Coupled with the quick response the mediator wanted in Case No. CR-6545 regarding the inspection of over 14,000 names and stations which would not give us arrgle time to review these nameslstations. We requested more time and recerved it. The mediator in Case No. CR-6550 wants us to formulate an appeal in barely over a week is certainly denying AMFA due process, which is needed to present evidence concerning the crafl or class issues in our case. As of this date we are still wafting permission for an extension d time. We get the imgression that the Board is treating our cases and the thousands of mechanics who signed authorization Cards in a frivolous manner.

Further, the IAM is boastingbragging 8boul your prior affiliation with the AFL-CIO. They ako state that you once worked for an IAM law firm.

We b e l i e that in order to keep the integrity of the NMB and eliminate any hint of impropriety you should recuse yourself from AMFA cases Further, m, Wieth at the NMB should appoint a three-member neutral independent panel, agreeable to all parties, to hear our cases and make a fnal decision on ow 'cases before the NMB.

It is our opinion that the NMB has compromised itself. We fell that the Board is getting too much pressure from the IAM and the airlines to make an honest, impartial decision regarding our cases.

I am awaiting your reply.
Sincerely,

O.V. Delle-Femine
National Director

(The font irregularities are a result of scanning the doc to PDF, then changing to word to copy and paste here).

 

[xUT]

You accuse people of lying because of your own ignorance. I do not mean that as an insult, however, just because you do not take the time to research the facts, does not make ME a liar. It makes you unknowable of the facts. Ignorant. Like I said, it is curable.

Your statement;
You know as well as I do that this happened once in I believe the late 60s or early 70s

This is an incorrect statement and I'm sorry about this, a bit ignorant also.

In 1989 there was an attempted raid at UA. The raid began like most others. A grass roots effort to bring the mechanics only union in to UAL. The promise was the union would be mechanics only. The theory was to collect cards only from mechanics as the cleaning classifications were once again being petitioned to be removed from the M&R class and craft.

The NMB refused the case and the card drive failed. In 1991, another attempt was made using the same tactics. Enough cards were collected from the mechanics, however, the same decision was made not to collect from the cleaners, hoping once again to be able to remove these employees from the class and craft. This time the NMB heard the case after it was preliminarily thought there was enough cards. But it too was denied, and the drive failed to have the amount of signitures needed to trigger an election once again.

In 1994, another attempt was made at NWA to remove the cleaners from the Class and craft. I have a paper document written on July 26, 1994 which is a decision signed by NMB Board Representative Maurice A Parker denying AMFA's request.

The application and accompanying addendum filed by AMFA , requested that certain employees be excluded from the Mechanics and related Class and Craft: specifically the application asked that the folowing classifcations be excluded: Lead Cleaner, Cleaner, Lead Custodian, Custodian.

The record reflects that both AMFA and the IAM&AW were involved in a previous representational dispute resulting in an election during May, 1991. In that election, the employees sought to be excuded by the applicant in the current application were "included" as eligable voters in the 1991 election. Accordingly I must adhere to the Board prcedent. The employees sought to be excluded by the applicant will be "included" as eligable voters for the purposes of this investigation.


The case number is NMB CR-6552. Again it is a paper copy so you will have to look it up through the NMB web site yourself.

TWU Informer claimed ignorant on this too and I posted the following on June 26 on a different thread.

They did this at least 4 times that I am aware. First in 1968, United Air Lines, 5 NMB 65, 77 (1968); again in 1977, United Air Lines, 6 NMB 134 (1977); in 1991, Northwest Airlines, 18 NMB 357 (1991) and finally in 1994 is the last case I have record of NMB CR-6545, United Airlines (1994).

After the NMB denied the separation, AMFA would a appeal the case always citing that the NMB was unfair. As I said, the elections were normally called off because AMFA would fail to collect cards from cleaners, and the numbers they did have from Mechanics could not compensate for the loss.

This went on until the late 1990's when AMFA gave up trying to dismiss the cleaners before an election and, changing tactics, focused their funds on winning the mechanics. Despite the IAM's push to get the cleaner vote, AMFA overwhelmingly won representation of the Mechanics at NWA in 1999. This was the end of trying to separate the classes before an election.

Below is a scanned a copy of AMFA's rebutal to the NMB after the NMB decided to keep the cleaners in the mechanics Class and Craft. I still have many of the campagn material used in the prior AMFA elections at UAL.


Mr. Ernest Dubester
Chairman
National Mediations Board
1301 K. Street, NW, Ste. 250 East
Washington, D. C. 20572-0002
VIA FAX
Re: NMB CASE CR6545 United Airlines, Inc.
Re: NMB Case CR6550 Northwest Airlines

August 1,1994

Dear Mr. Dubester:
I tried to reach you today, but you were out of your off ice. This letter will suffice.
tt has come to our attention that inside information from the NMB regarding the aforementioned cases is emanating from the IAM. We feel we aren't getting a fair, impartial decision from the Board.

Example:A few days before the mediator's decision on CR-6550, dated July 26,1994 the IAM disseminated inforrnation that he would not allow AMFA to present their position to the Board. Their prediction was correct.

The IAM through their shop stewards are now Saying that the UAL case (CR-6545) will be over in a week and they told their supporters not to worry about the AMFA election because it is over.

Coupled with the quick response the mediator wanted in Case No. CR-6545 regarding the inspection of over 14,000 names and stations which would not give us arrgle time to review these nameslstations. We requested more time and recerved it. The mediator in Case No. CR-6550 wants us to formulate an appeal in barely over a week is certainly denying AMFA due process, which is needed to present evidence concerning the crafl or class issues in our case. As of this date we are still wafting permission for an extension d time. We get the imgression that the Board is treating our cases and the thousands of mechanics who signed authorization Cards in a frivolous manner.

Further, the IAM is boastingbragging 8boul your prior affiliation with the AFL-CIO. They ako state that you once worked for an IAM law firm.

We b e l i e that in order to keep the integrity of the NMB and eliminate any hint of impropriety you should recuse yourself from AMFA cases Further, m, Wieth at the NMB should appoint a three-member neutral independent panel, agreeable to all parties, to hear our cases and make a fnal decision on ow 'cases before the NMB.

It is our opinion that the NMB has compromised itself. We fell that the Board is getting too much pressure from the IAM and the airlines to make an honest, impartial decision regarding our cases.

I am awaiting your reply.
Sincerely,

O.V. Delle-Femine
National Director

(The font irregularities are a result of scanning the doc to PDF, then changing to word to copy and paste here).

THE NMB makes the determination on class and craft, not the union.
That's why we had clerks and SAMC added to the class and craft even without their vote.
Since the ibt took over, How have they made out?

B) xUT

 

[Anomaly]

THE NMB makes the determination on class and craft, not the union.
That's why we had clerks and SAMC added to the class and craft even without their vote.
Since the ibt took over, How have they made out?

B) xUT

The subject and issue was that AMFA repeatedly attempted to exclude the cleaners from the craft and class, but you know this already. Is this one of those attempts to side step the subject?

 

[Anomaly]

I will gladly bring it up again.

Where is Los Angeles, Australia and since when does a "Global Patnership" not include the United States of America?

Seriously ?????