EyeInTheSky
Veteran
Winglet said:
Be careful what you wish for. One bad big apple pilot should not reflect on the group as a whole.
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- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
Be careful what you wish for. One bad big apple pilot should not reflect on the group as a whole.
- Thread Starter
- #17
I find it interesting that I simply post a news column and people like to "shoot the messenger". Do I like this situation? "No, sir ye," but it is what it is.
The reason the contracts are so bad is because of union resistance to face reality. For example, virtually everybody in ALPA and the union's advisors told the MEC to cut a deal early to limit damage. That did not happen and the company entered bankruptcy. Passenger bookings dropped off, revenue was hurt, and then the company had additional bankruptcy costs too.
To survive the airline needed deeper cuts and used the courts as leverage to obtain them. If you’re upset, be upset at the union process where every union except the TWU units took cuts larger than the company's initial "ask", especially the IAM-M and IAM-FSA.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
The reason the contracts are so bad is because of union resistance to face reality. For example, virtually everybody in ALPA and the union's advisors told the MEC to cut a deal early to limit damage. That did not happen and the company entered bankruptcy. Passenger bookings dropped off, revenue was hurt, and then the company had additional bankruptcy costs too.
To survive the airline needed deeper cuts and used the courts as leverage to obtain them. If you’re upset, be upset at the union process where every union except the TWU units took cuts larger than the company's initial "ask", especially the IAM-M and IAM-FSA.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
roadtrip
Veteran
Since the Big wigs a ccy think automation is the great key to saving this airline.
The next major thing to be automated should and will be the front end crew since the technology is here and improving to allow a plane to fly from California to Austraila nonstop without pilots just think how much more money the Big boys can line it pockets with if they can sell this to the public with rock bottom fares. Don't think this won't happen if Joe or Mary can get to point a to point b cheaply they wont care if there is a pilot in the front or robie the robot.
something for the A320 to think about
The next major thing to be automated should and will be the front end crew since the technology is here and improving to allow a plane to fly from California to Austraila nonstop without pilots just think how much more money the Big boys can line it pockets with if they can sell this to the public with rock bottom fares. Don't think this won't happen if Joe or Mary can get to point a to point b cheaply they wont care if there is a pilot in the front or robie the robot.
something for the A320 to think about
- Thread Starter
- #20
Roadtrip:
Roadtrip said: "The next major thing to be automated should and will be the front end crew since the technology is here and improving to allow a plane to fly from California to Austraila nonstop without pilots just think how much more money the Big boys can line it pockets with if they can sell this to the public with rock bottom fares. Don't think this won't happen if Joe or Mary can get to point a to point b cheaply they wont care if there is a pilot in the front or robie the robot. something for the A320 to think about"
USA320Pilot comments: Front end crews have been reduced from 5 (Pilot, Co-Pilot, Flight Engineer, Navigator, and Radio Operator) to 2 due to technology. As technology improves with remote controlled drones or onboard systems I believe we could see 1 pilot and 1 system operator crews in the future.
Do I like programs like NAFTA, offshore customer service, technology eliminating the work force? No, oc course not. But I understand how the world is changing.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
Roadtrip said: "The next major thing to be automated should and will be the front end crew since the technology is here and improving to allow a plane to fly from California to Austraila nonstop without pilots just think how much more money the Big boys can line it pockets with if they can sell this to the public with rock bottom fares. Don't think this won't happen if Joe or Mary can get to point a to point b cheaply they wont care if there is a pilot in the front or robie the robot. something for the A320 to think about"
USA320Pilot comments: Front end crews have been reduced from 5 (Pilot, Co-Pilot, Flight Engineer, Navigator, and Radio Operator) to 2 due to technology. As technology improves with remote controlled drones or onboard systems I believe we could see 1 pilot and 1 system operator crews in the future.
Do I like programs like NAFTA, offshore customer service, technology eliminating the work force? No, oc course not. But I understand how the world is changing.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
Harry Callahan
Veteran
pitguy
Veteran
All you need to do is think about is the * 21 * Fleet Cities that were announce to close. Why do you think they announced them so soon? Is it that they are offering PHL as about their only option to stay with the Company?
CapnCockroach
Advanced
coachrowsey said:
Typical American worker attitude - union or not. Part of the reason the jobs are leaving - and it's long overdue.
Then why don't you do it. Go work in the freezing cold for $8/hr. I would rather not work and be poor than work and be poor.CapnCockroach said:
Well, USA320Pilot, you’re half-right here. I believe specifically the IAM, and I suspect most of the other Union groups, should be mad at the Union process, but not for the reasons you believe.USA320Pilot said:
The reason most of the people I know are mad is because the management changed from a clueless "soft management" team, into a predatory "hard management" regime. (See the thread and Article here). Without Unions, the management could have just announced lower wages and less labor friendly working conditions. The employees who didn't like what happed to their jobs would have no recourse but to quit, and find another job.
Fortunately (or in this case unfortunately), the labor force at US Airways was contracted labor. And with the new predatory "hard management" regime, most of us considered our groups as sub-contractors, so as to not bear any associations with what we considered Evil Conquers of our "lost" company. (Kind of like the Free French of WWII).
As disassociated sub-contractors, we expected our contacts to be honored regardless of any financial hardships the management brought upon themselves by stupid, greedy, and corrupt business decisions. We expected the management to change its' wrong, unprofitable, business policies and run a profitable business. The management made it clear that any facts or suggestions from "the sub-contractors" were not appreciated, and were in fact a nuisance to them. Fine. Run your own company. Just honor your obligations.
The management then exacerbated the relationship with the IAM by unilaterally breaking a fundamental clause of their contract. The IAM did the proper thing and took the "evil conquers" to court, and won.
The management then used fear, uncertainty, and doubt to intimidate certain of their "sub-contractors" into revising their contracts to favor the "company". When other groups resisted, the management used the leverage of the bankruptcy courts to push the remaining "sub-contractors" into untenable positions.
Once in an untenable position, I believe it was the duty of the Union Leadership to lobby for further rejection of any contract concessions and for the withdrawal of its' memberships services. From what I understand, this is exactly the position favored by the I.A.M. International, and they were prepared to endure any consequences brought about by such a stand and subsequent actions. Unfortunately the rank and file were not.
Now we get to the reason why I believe the Union’s memberships should be angry with their Unions leadership.
I believe that it is the responsibility of the Union Leadership to not only educate their membership to the harshness of business practices and negotiations, but to also be strong leaders in each, individual, campaign in this new "predatory to labor" environment.
I believe that even if the rank and file was fearful of taking on the management, the Union leadership should have deployed organizers to rally the membership into doing the right thing. The concession stand should have stayed closed.
So, I understand you to believe that regardless of the harshness or the hazard of a "job", the worker should be paid the same low wage.CapnCockroach said:
Thankfully the market is self-correcting. The answer, illustrated by this very example, is no.
delldude
Veteran
