It's Official, APFA Vote Passed

[jimntx]

I can hardly wait for them to put the LBFO into effect, and then time how long it will be before the bitching starts.

"They didn't tell me that the insurance was going to quadruple." (Yes, they did.)

"I'm calling the FAA/union/fill in the blank. This 3on, 1off, 3on scheduling can NOT be legal." (Yes, it is.)

"What do you mean that I won't get retiree travel benefits? I've been with this company 25 years!" (Yes, dear. But you are leaving at the age of 47 with the VEOP. For you it's the same as resigning before age 50. You get your 18 months of passes and that's it.)

"They claim that they gave us an immediate 3% raise, but my take home pay went down." (See insurance above.)

 

[unionguy1]

I can hardly wait for them to put the LBFO into effect, and then time how long it will be before the bitching starts.

"They didn't tell me that the insurance was going to quadruple." (Yes, they did.)

"I'm calling the FAA/union/fill in the blank. This 3on, 1off, 3on scheduling can NOT be legal." (Yes, it is.)

"What do you mean that I won't get retiree travel benefits? I've been with this company 25 years!" (Yes, dear. But you are leaving at the age of 47 with the VEOP. For you it's the same as resigning before age 50. You get your 18 months of passes and that's it.)

"They claim that they gave us an immediate 3% raise, but my take home pay went down." (See insurance above.)

And in 2018 we still below our wages in 2003. But not to worry management ecec's will have reaped millions in bonus thanks tour sacrifices. Jimmy L. thanks for fightng like hell for us. Aint btonsee nwhatv ya look like when ya rolln over.

 

[unionguy1]

Should have proof read before hitting the post.

Should read : "And in 2018 we will still be below our wages in 2003. Not to worry management execs will have reaped millions in bonus thanks to our sacrifices. Jimmy L. thanks for fighting like hell for us. Hate to see what you look like when you roll over."

 

[bluebird]

Congrats to the union...

I don’t think that they liked the deal but they thought that it was the best recommendation that they could give to the membership.

 

[AirLUVer]

"What do you mean that I won't get retiree travel benefits? I've been with this company 25 years!" (Yes, dear. But you are leaving at the age of 47 with the VEOP. For you it's the same as resigning before age 50. You get your 18 months of passes and that's it.)

Actually you get 10 years of passes for anything over 10 years... 5 years of passes for 9 or fewer years from what i remember being put out just recently by the union.

 

[bluebird]

Theres a big difference between "aquiescence" and being "on board"...

I wonder how many will take the Early Out.

I won’t. I’ll have to wait until the Article 30

but I did get a few more questions answered today.

Re: retirement passes. USAir will not take away pass benefits from Flight Attendants retiring under the LBFO. The only thing that they have said is that they might change the boarding priority.

The Early Out with USAir is the same as the VEOP in the LBFO except that the USAir Early Out has furlough protection. There is no age requirement.

When/if we merge with USAir, the Article 30 Early Out will be part of the Contract.

For those of us staying, USAir requires that we fly 45 hours a month. Right now AA is requiring 35. Our deal is better so I’m sure we’ll try to keep the requirement at 35.

 

[silverbird007]

Just worked a 2 day trip, i have 15 years as an AA fa and I had 1 fa senior to me (23 years) and 2 junior to me, one was TWA (approx 65 years old) i didnt ask of course! They all said they voted no on the LBFO. The senior fa said she couldnt believe how stupid the AA fas are for voting no ( approx 45 years old??) the TWA fa said "ive been down this road before" blah blah blah, and the other (aa junior fa was just scared i think). They said they all voted NO on the LBFO. I dont know if they were all telling the truth or not, maybe afraid?? dont know or care. Its just a good example of whats going on here. First none of them knew any details of the LBFO or the term sheet, and didnt want to know. Bottom line is its the same as most Americans whether Democrat or Republican, neither really know what either candidate stands for or what their policies are. Dont seem to want to know or care. (im not just talking about the presidential candidates) Its just like this APFA vote. I dont know everything in the term sheet or the LBFO, but I do know about 80% of both, without looking at the paperwork. This is crazy! I remember back in 2000 , when Bush was running against Gore and I was working with a DFW fa, she had decided to vote for Bush "because he was cuter than Gore". We are all screwed especially with this type of ignorance. I fly with alot of fas who want to quit but cant because of the insurance, some of the female fas have husbands who are self employed or work for a company with no insurance benefits. They are mostly voting Republican and then wondering why they have to keep working? I know that neither party is perfect, but if you are labor and voting for billionaires then......

 

[jimntx]

Silverbird007, why would anyone who has never read their contract read proposed draconian changes to that contract? Galley gossip about the contents of the LBFO is so much more fun to talk about, and you can always claim later that they must have changed the terms after you voted.

In fact, considering that the LBFO we just approved is not in contract language, I wouldn't be too sure that either one of us (and I have read the entire text of the actual LBFO) can be sure about what the final product is going to say. There are loopholes you could drive a truck through. When they start "contractualizing" the LBFO, I think there are going to be some areas where the company is going to tell the union, "Well, that may be what you thought we meant, but that is not what we meant." And, if the union tries to push, the company can say "Do you have that in writing somewhere? We don't remember any such agreement."

Cynical? Moi? How could you say such a thing?

 

[jimntx]

Actually you get 10 years of passes for anything over 10 years... 5 years of passes for 9 or fewer years from what i remember being put out just recently by the union.

My mistake, but I am still talking to f/as who think that they can leave before age 50 with the VEOP, but when they reach retirement age (60?), they can actually retire (with retiree travel benefits, etc).

AMR draws a distinction between retirees and pensioners. Because we have a DBP, Federal law says we are vested and eligible for a pension after 5 years of pensionable service. However, you have to have 10 years on the active payroll to be eligible for retiree benefits--such as travel. And, if you leave the company prior to age 50 for any reason other than say a career-ending injury on duty, you are not eligible for retiree benefits, just your pension. It's the same as if you resigned prior to age 50. Note that the union is carefully stating that "you will not lose anything you are eligible for already."

 

[unionguy1]

My mistake, but I am still talking to f/as who think that they can leave before age 50 with the VEOP, but when they reach retirement age (60?), they can actually retire (with retiree travel benefits, etc).

AMR draws a distinction between retirees and pensioners. Because we have a DBP, Federal law says we are vested and eligible for a pension after 5 years of pensionable service. However, you have to have 10 years on the active payroll to be eligible for retiree benefits--such as travel. And, if you leave the company prior to age 50 for any reason other than say a career-ending injury on duty, you are not eligible for retiree benefits, just your pension. It's the same as if you resigned prior to age 50. Note that the union is carefully stating that "you will not lose anything you are eligible for already."

Well said.

 

[bluebird]

We shall be sure to oblige the quid pro quo of contract law...

“Yes, squid pro row!” ~ Austin Powers

Don’t take the Early Out. Wait until they offer a more reasonable VBR or SIS with passes (e.g. age plus seniority equals 55). If they don’t, they may have to furlough and that doesn’t make for good PR.

 

[bluebird]

AMR draws a distinction between retirees and pensioners. Because we have a DBP, Federal law says we are vested and eligible for a pension after 5 years of pensionable service. However, you have to have 10 years on the active payroll to be eligible for retiree benefits--such as travel. And, if you leave the company prior to age 50 for any reason other than say a career-ending injury on duty, you are not eligible for retiree benefits, just your pension. It's the same as if you resigned prior to age 50. Note that the union is carefully stating that "you will not lose anything you are eligible for already."

That’s why it does not make sense to leave before 50 (or a VBR). You will never be considered a retiree with benefits. All other offers are a separation package.

The AFFA helpline was incorrectly advising people about this, by the way. Know that if you leave before you are 50--you loose a lot.

Who wants to be here that long? No one!

I asked the union, “Are you even trying to get passes?”

They said yes but they have been unsuccessful.

AA will offer the Early Out (hopefully they won’t get many takers) and then maybe they’ll offer a VBR and get us the hell out of here! Like I wanted to be 400 years old pushing a beverage cart!

 

[bigjets]

Heard these FA's talking today, the one said these can't fly the minimum amount of hours to be employed at AA so she voted NO.

How many FA's are out there that don't work at AA but are employed by AA?

 

[IORFA]

Why on gods green earth would you think AA would worry about supposed PR issues if they had to furlough people? They have done it many times over already. Now all of a sudden you think they are going to care? Just because you are irritated about some ridiculous pass travel problem. Amazing! Here's an answer for you, keep flying and DON'T take it. Problem solved. Next rant.

 

[jimntx]

Heard these FA's talking today, the one said these can't fly the minimum amount of hours to be employed at AA so she voted NO.

How many FA's are out there that don't work at AA but are employed by AA?

The union admits to over 200 who haven't flown a trip in over 10 years, but are still on the "active" seniority list. There are even more that fly once or twice a month or less. One of the "good" features of the LBFO is that if you want to call yourself an AA flight attendant, you are going to have to fly on occasion. Up until the 2003 concessions they even got full benefits as long as they maintained a place on the active list and kept their quals current. Actually showing up to work was not considered a requirement for drawing benefits or maintaining employment.