July - IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[700UW]

The TWU doesnt want him, go look a the letter he wrote when he tried to raid them and the TWU's response.

And since AA will be largely reduced no one knows the true #'s of employees nor what will happen if a merger happens and seniority goes to arbitration.

Outsource cities due to Departure Limit – All stations w/less then 15 daily departures (5475 annually) would be outsourced. Seventeen
(17) TWU staffed cities would remain (AUS, BOS, DCA, DFW, JFK, LAS, LAX, LGA, MCO, MIA, ORD, SFO STL, ATL, SAT, SJU & TPA). These cities are protected from outsourcing as long as annual departures exceed 2555 for the duration of this agreement.
Outsource all Day Line Cabin Cleaning work
Outsource all Cargo handling with the exception of DFW, JFK, LAX, MIA and ORD
Outsource all American Eagle bag transfer work
Outsource all fueling work
Outsource all mail handling work

AA is going to layoff approximately 4,200 rampers. They currently have around 11,000, so leaves around 6,800 rampers left, if I am not mistaken US has around 6,000?

So once again he is crying wolf and the sky is falling.

 

[700UW]

What is even more interesting is that in bankruptcy, when compared, the AA ramp got a pay raise, still has better scope, and make about $1 more than Delaney's UA ramp who are working for the most profitable carrier in the industry and haven't gotten a raise in 5 years.

regards,

Do you realize AA hasnt been in two chapter 11 cases in less than two years?

They took non-bankruptcy concessions in 2003, and now in 2012 and were and are not in danger of going out of business, you couldnt say the same about US, now could you?

And UA is not the most profitable carrier, they have even shown losses, recently, WN would be the most profitable carrier.

UAL REPORTS $286 MILLION FIRST-QUARTER 2012 LOSS EXCLUDING SPECIAL CHARGES; $448 MILLION LOSS INCLUDING SPECIAL CHARGES
CHICAGO, April 26, 2012 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ --United Continental Holdings, Inc. (NYSE: UAL) today reported a first-quarter 2012 net loss of $286 million or $0.87 loss per share, excluding $162 million of net special charges consisting primarily of integration-related costs. Including special charges, UAL reported a first-quarter 2012 net loss of $448 million or $1.36 loss per share.

You make this way too easy.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The TWU doesnt want him, go look a the letter he wrote when he tried to raid them and the TWU's response.

And since AA will be largely reduced no one knows the true #'s of employees nor what will happen if a merger happens and seniority goes to arbitration.



AA is going to layoff approximately 4,200 rampers. They currently have around 11,000, so leaves around 6,800 rampers left, if I am not mistaken US has around 6,000?

So once again he is crying wolf and the sky is falling.

700UW,
stop crying. Sheesh!

The TWU contract sucks for sure with all the contracted out crap and makes it just a bit better than US AIRWAYS IAM fleet.

At any rate, 11,000 being reduced to 6,000 would cripple any organizing drive and doom the IAM since all laid off rampers would be a part of the 50% card signup that would be needed. Get your head out. SMH

Out of 17,000, the IAM would need to produce 2,500 AMR cards to force an election [40% of all active AMR workers]. I know ORD isn't too fond of the TWU but DFW may be tough.

IBT and AMFA are officially going after the MX at AMR and then plan on accreting the US AIRWAYS MX.

At any rate, triggering an election with the ramp against the TWU will jeopardize the federal McCaskill Bond Act rights of the US AIRWAYS IAM members. Those rights helped protect the airtran IAM rampers against the Southwest TWU rampers so that no hub employee lost ANY time, and all other employees lost 2.5 years. Interesting to note that part of that decision was based on who bought who, and the fact that the airtran employees were non contract. The McCaskill Bond Act will most likely produce even a more favorable decision if US AIRWAYS buys AMR. It makes no sense for a US AIRWAYS IAM member to want an organizing drive and another election with another union since they may be stripped of the McCaskill Bond rights and end up like the TWA employees.

regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

Are you saying you want TWU?

I am not supporting the TWU. However, our members should be advised of the law and that any representation election that the IAM may want to force will necessarily play games with our members seniority and stripping them of the McCaskill Bond Act Federal protections that just rendered an arbitration decision for airtran Hub, non-contract employees, that just put their seniority at the SAME as the TWU Southwest rampers, who have the most solid 'seniority protectioin' clause in their contract, and were arguing for a 8 to 1 seniority scale.
Even the airtran, non-hub, non contract employees, came out MUCH better at only losing 2.5 years of seniority, as opposed to the 8-1 that the TWU wanted to impose.

Any seniority loss sucks but bypassing the federal guarantees at this point doesn't make any sense since we already know that the TWU internal policies will have them take a position of 4 to 1 or maybe even more drastic. And the only way where the US AIRWAYS members would lose their federal McCaskill Bond protections is if the IAM forces an election. That's the law.

regards,

 

[700UW]

You are using fuzzy math, there wont be 11,000 FSA at AA, they are laying off, I explained the math, and showed it using AA's #, yet you disregard it once again, cause it doesnt fit Tim's way of thinking.

AA is laying off 4,200 out of 11,000 leaving only 6,800 fleet on the property.

Open your eyes and read.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You are using fuzzy math, there wont be 11,000 FSA at AA, they are laying off, I explained the math, and showed it using AA's #, yet you disregard it once again, cause it doesnt fit Tim's way of thinking.

AA is laying off 4,200 out of 11,000 leaving only 6,800 fleet on the property.

Open your eyes and read.

700,
Sometimes I really don't know why I respond because your knowledge of labor law is rivaled with your knowledge of negotiations where you negotiated yourself out of a job and still don't know it.

Step into my classroom. First off, it's not a question of math, but one of law. The law says that all laid off workers can vote and are eligible in representation votes. Thus, using your reasoning, you ought to be able to figure out that the IAM would need enough cards to cover those employees who will be laid off also.

I'm still scratching my head as to why you even care since you don't even work for an airline and some have said that you are unemployed welching on tax payers. IMO, you should be able to find another entry level sanitation dumper job like the one you negotiated yourself out of. What ya say?

regards,

 

[700UW]

Was a stock clerk, try again.

And they can only vote if they have the expectation of a recall and they dont have that once AA lays them off.

Keep trying.

And we didnt negotiate the elimination of utility, our CBA was abrogated and we voted on the final offer.

Make up more lies, so how did that election go for you?

Since you kept boasting that you had CLT, PHL, and PHX.

Once again you failed, just like you failed with AGW, FSU, and all the other BS you have tried.

 

[roabilly]

Nelson has certainly met his match with 700…

The most formidable post-election adversary currently confronting him is REALITY!

 

[700UW]

And its not in the RLA which is law, its in NMB rules.

Did your certificate of appreciation made on a the district's computer not cover that?

Or was it when you filed short on cards at AirTran and at US?

§ 1202.3 Representation disputes.
If any dispute shall arise among a carrier's employees as to who are the representatives of such employees designated and authorized in accordance with the requirements of the Railway Labor Act, it is the duty of the Board, upon request of either party to the dispute, to investigate such dispute and certify to both parties, in writing, the name or names of individuals or organizations that have been designated and authorized to represent the employees involved in the dispute, and to certify the same to the carrier.

1201.4 Employee.
The term "employee" as used in this part includes every person in the service of a carrier (subject to its continuing authority to supervise and direct the manner of rendition of his service) who performs any work defined as that of an employee or subordinate official in the orders of the Interstate Commerce Commission now in effect, and as the same may be amended or interpreted by orders hereafter entered by the Commission pursuant to the authority which is hereby conferred upon it to enter orders amending or interpreting such existing orders: Provided, however, That no occupational classification made by order of the Interstate Commerce Commission shall be construed to define the crafts according to which railway employees may be organized by their voluntary action, nor shall the jurisdiction or powers of such employee organizations be regarded as in any way limited or defined by the provisions of this Act or by the orders of the Commission.

§ 1202.7 Who may participate in elections.
As mentioned in § 1202.3, when disputes arise between parties to a representation dispute, the National Mediation Board is authorized by the Act to determine who may participate in the selection of employees representatives.

1202.8 Hearings on craft or class.
In the event the contesting parties or organizations are unable to agree on the employees eligible to participate in the selection of representatives, and either party makes application by letter for a formal hearing before the Board to determine the dispute, the Board may in its discretion hold a public hearing, at which all parties interested may present their contentions and argument, and at which the carrier concerned is usually invited to present factual information. At the conclusion of such hearings the Board customarily invites all interested parties to submit briefs supporting their views, and after considering the evidence and briefs, the Board makes a determination or finding, specifying the craft or class of employees eligible to participate in the designation of representatives.

And I know about elections, I was part of the largest ever win in the airline industry, UA CSA and I was involved in the US Fleet organizing and a few MROs.

From the NMB Representational Manual:

The list of potential eligible voters must include all individuals in the craft or class with an employee-employer relationship as of the cut-off date. The list must identify each employee’s full name, the job title, and the duty station or location.

Furloughed Employees
Furloughed employees are eligible to vote in the craft or class in which they last worked if they retain an employee-employer relationship and have a reasonable expectation of returning to work. Furloughed employees regularly working in another craft or class are ineligible to vote in the craft or class from which the employees are furloughed.

Lets see laying off 4,200 ramp, closing numerous stations and merging with another carrier who has staff, pretty much sums it up they dont have an expectation of recall.

Try again Timmy

 

[Tim Nelson]

And its not in the RLA which is law, its in NMB rules.

Did your certificate of appreciation made on a the district's computer not cover that?

Or was it when you filed short on cards at AirTran and at US?













And I know about elections, I was part of the largest ever win in the airline industry, UA CSA and I was involved in the US Fleet organizing and a few MROs.

From the NMB Representational Manual:




Lets see laying off 4,200 ramp, closing numerous stations and merging with another carrier who has staff, pretty much sums it up they dont have an expectation of recall.

Try again Timmy

700,
Those employees, like all employees laid off, almost always will be eligible voters. You have no idea what you are talking about. Then again, you claimed you were organizing for the IAM but were never found while you were on the union dime and didn't even know the cards were filed for the customer service at US AIRWAYS.

What is really a shame is that you were absolutely clueless in your negotiations strategies and didn't take the time to read your contract. If you did, you would have realized the devastating consequences to you and finally understood that you negotiated yourself out of your lav truck job. Sorry but you were a lav truck operater, not a stock clerk. Not that one has any more stripes than the other because both of those jobs are fine. Just be honest for once.

Sheesh!

 

[700UW]

Are you that ignorant?

And keep trying to make it about me and not the topic at hand.

Went to stores in 99 till 2003, then back to utility in 2003 and back to stores in 2005.

Dont let the facts get in your way.

And why dont you just ignore the facts of the NMB representational manual.

I wasnt involved in the CSA drive, just Fleet at US, and CSA at UA.

Keep making up more lies tim, the membership saw you for what you really are and you got trounced.

The M&R CBA was abrogated, we didnt negotiate a T/A and the final offer that the court made us vote on gave the company the right to outsource line utility, I voted no.

Your group gave up work without being abrogated, so dont try and change the issue.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Are you that ignorant?

And keep trying to make it about me and not the topic at hand.

Went to stores in 99 till 2003, then back to utility in 2003 and back to stores in 2005.

Dont let the facts get in your way.

And why dont you just ignore the facts of the NMB representational manual.

I wasnt involved in the CSA drive, just Fleet at US, and CSA at UA.

Keep making up more lies tim, the membership saw you for what you really are and you got trounced.

The M&R CBA was abrogated, we didnt negotiate a T/A and the final offer that the court made us vote on gave the company the right to outsource line utility, I voted no.

Your group gave up work without being abrogated, so dont try and change the issue.

700,
I am fully aware after you realized you hoodwinked yourself that you voted no but by then it was too late. I hear Southwest is hiring.

 

[700UW]

I cant wait till the vote totals come out, lets see how badly you lost, since you said you have the US property sewn up and got trounced.

Just like when you tried to sell your list to the ibt, just like when you screwed the CSAs and filed short on cards and you repeated your track record and did it FL also.

Your AGW, your FSU failed, you failed with the IBEW.

How does it feel to be a failure?

 

[Tim Nelson]

I cant wait till the vote totals come out, lets see how badly you lost, since you said you have the US property sewn up and got trounced.

Just like when you tried to sell your list to the ibt, just like when you screwed the CSAs and filed short on cards and you repeated your track record and did it FL also.

Your AGW, your FSU failed, you failed with the IBEW.

How does it feel to be a failure?

700, Lol
I have a job unlike you. And a very happy life. Again, I hear Southwest is hiring! IMO, you should get a job or move on from your previous job.

 

[Tim Nelson]

[background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]

I honestly can't believe how the TWU rolled right over on the ramp like the IAM rolled on the ramp in bankruptcy. The TWU contract [before the me too clause kicked in] called for starting wage rates in 2017 to be $8.81 with the 9th year level at $17.71. Minimum wage in Illionis is $8.25. [/background]